Well we will be where we are now for a good few seasons yet, and that suits me fine, as far as being bigger means smaller ticket prices, that don’t happen anywhere else. The BBT wasn’t the greatest place on the planet, but by god did we have some amazing nights there, and without it we wouldn’t be here now, opposition hated it and it was perfect for tough hockey, it must have had something going for it as the fans flooded in and there were memories aplenty, if this virus buggers off, we will have many more nights to cherish. Stay Safe all.
Cardiff Bay “Masterplan” including a 15,000 seater arena!
- Thread starter kingmo19.1
- Start date
Thread starter
#62
comparing the venues is difficult as they applied at different eras.
My take:-
WNIR - awesome location, nostalgia, atmosphere fab when it was rocking!
BBT - originally crap location, naff facility atmosphere the best when it was rocking.
IAW - best facility, worst atmosphere.
New place - ????
My take:-
WNIR - awesome location, nostalgia, atmosphere fab when it was rocking!
BBT - originally crap location, naff facility atmosphere the best when it was rocking.
IAW - best facility, worst atmosphere.
New place - ????
Spot on, this says it as it is, we do sometimes have a good atmosphere at the IAW, but nothing to rival the tent, mind you we were more condensed in the tent, but the crowd was insane. Another reason without a doubt is there’s little to No fighting now, now it doesn’t matter what your take is on fighting, but no one fell asleep or walked out when a fight started, plus a lack of Characters like Voth, Sacratini, MacWilliam, and later Hendrix, Faryna, these factors are huge in building up the atmosphere in any building. Yes goals are awesome, speed,skill, and the game in general is the dogs, but big hits, dropping the gloves, and teams dis-liking each other creates the feeling I think most of us miss. Stay Safe all.
It's the same with most venues that smaller is better for atmosphere as you've said the BBT was best atmosphere which was the smallest venue.
The many concerts i've been to festivals are naff atmospheres100,000 , stadium ones are good but not the best 75,000, indoor arenas are much better 5-10,000 but the more intimate concerts for say 2000 people like O2 academy in Leeds are amazing.
The Welsh football team even though it was amazing playing at the principality stadium it lost the atmosphere so the went to the Cardiff City stadium instead.
When I watched Calgary Flames over the 3 games (Coyotes, Blue Jackets, Knights) i saw at the Saddledome each game was nearly a sell out of 19,000 but because the game itself was so clinical and precise without the huge hits and fights the atmosphere was very quiet.
So even with a near full arena of 19,000 the atmosphere wasn't buzzing.
The many concerts i've been to festivals are naff atmospheres100,000 , stadium ones are good but not the best 75,000, indoor arenas are much better 5-10,000 but the more intimate concerts for say 2000 people like O2 academy in Leeds are amazing.
The Welsh football team even though it was amazing playing at the principality stadium it lost the atmosphere so the went to the Cardiff City stadium instead.
When I watched Calgary Flames over the 3 games (Coyotes, Blue Jackets, Knights) i saw at the Saddledome each game was nearly a sell out of 19,000 but because the game itself was so clinical and precise without the huge hits and fights the atmosphere was very quiet.
So even with a near full arena of 19,000 the atmosphere wasn't buzzing.
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Thread starter
#65
A lot of NHL games that I’ve seen have had absolutely rubbish atmospheres. Big pre-game build up then almost library like when the game is in progress.
For those that have never been to a live NHL game, our fan base is far more vocal and imaginative in terms of songs and chants.
The sweet spot would be our fan base x 2,
Now that would raise a few roofs.
Also in terms of ambition/fan base size, let’s not forget what the Storm did in Manchester! Massive arena followed by the biggest crowds ever seen in Britain. Had they built a 3,000 seater arena, yes they’d have been happy to fill it, but would never have realised there were another 14,000 fans out there willing to attend!
For those that have never been to a live NHL game, our fan base is far more vocal and imaginative in terms of songs and chants.
The sweet spot would be our fan base x 2,
Now that would raise a few roofs.
Also in terms of ambition/fan base size, let’s not forget what the Storm did in Manchester! Massive arena followed by the biggest crowds ever seen in Britain. Had they built a 3,000 seater arena, yes they’d have been happy to fill it, but would never have realised there were another 14,000 fans out there willing to attend!
And IIRC numbers dropped off and the arena owners priced them out.
Also Manchester catchment area is far bigger than Cardiff's with the arena built over the major rail station to the north
It's a fair comparison in the sense of build it and they will come but it's not necessarily the best comparison when thinking about the future
Also Manchester catchment area is far bigger than Cardiff's with the arena built over the major rail station to the north
It's a fair comparison in the sense of build it and they will come but it's not necessarily the best comparison when thinking about the future
Thread starter
#67
It’s just an example of what can be achieved. Another example of an established team being Nottingham moving from their old barn into the Motorpoint - an uplift of 5,000 fans
History is littered with examples:-
Wales rugby - Arms Park to the Principality.
Arsenal - Highbury to the Emirates.
Spurs - White Heart Lane to their new place.
Cardiff - Ninian to the CCS.
Swansea - Vetch to the Liberty.
Liverpool - Anfield expansion.
Old Trafford - Multiple expansions.
Etc etc .....
Personally, I think if the possibility is there to look at a bigger and better venue in a more desirable location with a bigger local catchment then you’d be mad not to analyse the possibility. But each to their own.
History is littered with examples:-
Wales rugby - Arms Park to the Principality.
Arsenal - Highbury to the Emirates.
Spurs - White Heart Lane to their new place.
Cardiff - Ninian to the CCS.
Swansea - Vetch to the Liberty.
Liverpool - Anfield expansion.
Old Trafford - Multiple expansions.
Etc etc .....
Personally, I think if the possibility is there to look at a bigger and better venue in a more desirable location with a bigger local catchment then you’d be mad not to analyse the possibility. But each to their own.
I'm not really sure you can compare all those moves to a Devils move.
6 teams from the world's biggest spectator sport and a international team.
The football moves would work no problem as those teams have fans from all over the world not just the UK and their cities alone could fill it.
I myself used to travel from Cardiff to the old size anfield when tickets were available, can't see many traveling from Liverpool to watch the Devils.
I think an extra 1000 on top of the 3100 at IAW would have been the limit but we got what we got and it's our home.
6 teams from the world's biggest spectator sport and a international team.
The football moves would work no problem as those teams have fans from all over the world not just the UK and their cities alone could fill it.
I myself used to travel from Cardiff to the old size anfield when tickets were available, can't see many traveling from Liverpool to watch the Devils.
I think an extra 1000 on top of the 3100 at IAW would have been the limit but we got what we got and it's our home.
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Fair comment about comparing ice hockey to football etc and the installed fan bases but if the sport is to grow the facilities do too. Granted moving to some 15k pie in the sky arena doesn't seem viable or indeed practical right now but l think it's wrong to accept IAW as a long term home simply because it's rent free, suits a vocal minority on here and is better than the big blue toilet we came from.
All the casuals l've persuaded to go to the odd game in the IAW have enjoyed it but they miss the marquee games against Belfast, Shuff and Nottingham due to 'hell outs'. If the game is to grow domestically we need a bit more ambition, say something with a 5k capacity at least. l'm sure Todd and the owners are accutely aware of this and are planning long term.
All the casuals l've persuaded to go to the odd game in the IAW have enjoyed it but they miss the marquee games against Belfast, Shuff and Nottingham due to 'hell outs'. If the game is to grow domestically we need a bit more ambition, say something with a 5k capacity at least. l'm sure Todd and the owners are accutely aware of this and are planning long term.
Thread starter
#72
And not forgetting the spin offs that can also come via a bigger and better venue .... more corporate hospitality (as mentioned previously) coupled with likely bigger and better sponsorship.
I’m sure potential sponsors out there would rather have their company name on display to 7,000 - 8,000 fans a week than 3,080 ! More fans more publicity, more shirts sales, increased exposure etc etc etc .....
I’m sure potential sponsors out there would rather have their company name on display to 7,000 - 8,000 fans a week than 3,080 ! More fans more publicity, more shirts sales, increased exposure etc etc etc .....
You would have to increase the fan base by 110-120% with a product that entertainment wise is dropping, Cardiff Blues are lucky to get 7-8000, in central Cardiff. Also don’t forget only 3 Teams can facilitate more income turnstile wise than us with our free ice time. At this moment in time ( well for the next few years ) what we have is certainly adequate, and better than most,can we improve further down the line hopefully yes, but our gaff cost the Council Zilch otherwise it would never have happened. Anyway let’s get hockey back that’s the priority here. Stay Safe All.
For those against the idea and thinking it’s not needed. It might not be needed as such; we are sitting pretty in terms of how we compete. A few other teams could potentially really out spend us, but that hasn’t really every materialised and we have generous owners no doubt.
But, the biggest over riding factor that seems to be over looked by those against it and seemingly saying it won’t happen. If it could happen and has the potential to generate more income; then it will. The Devils are a business, adequate doesn’t give businessmen and their family’s the future of their dreams. It might be nice having a better atmosphere, or you might like IAW or worry about other users but the reality is that if it makes the Devils and in turn Todd Kelman money we will be off. If he feels we could make a penny more, we will be playing in the new arena and rightly so. Im also fairly sure that Todd has every confidence in his ability to sell ice to the eskimos so will see a 10k arena as nothing more than a challenge.
But, the biggest over riding factor that seems to be over looked by those against it and seemingly saying it won’t happen. If it could happen and has the potential to generate more income; then it will. The Devils are a business, adequate doesn’t give businessmen and their family’s the future of their dreams. It might be nice having a better atmosphere, or you might like IAW or worry about other users but the reality is that if it makes the Devils and in turn Todd Kelman money we will be off. If he feels we could make a penny more, we will be playing in the new arena and rightly so. Im also fairly sure that Todd has every confidence in his ability to sell ice to the eskimos so will see a 10k arena as nothing more than a challenge.
Thread starter
#78
I can see somebody digging this thread up
I’m 25 years time and saying “Oh man, why didn’t we do it”!
With top of the league Fulham Flyers packing out their 16,000 arena coupled with Stoke Sabres playing in front of 15,000 faithful fans each week plus Sheffield in their new 32,000 seater arena snapping at their heels we can only look up to them from NIHL2 and envy their position having settled on a lack of ambition back in 2020.
Ho-hum, but at least we can look forward to the home game against Ashford Islanders on the weekend, and hope to break the 1,000 attendance figure!
I’m 25 years time and saying “Oh man, why didn’t we do it”!
With top of the league Fulham Flyers packing out their 16,000 arena coupled with Stoke Sabres playing in front of 15,000 faithful fans each week plus Sheffield in their new 32,000 seater arena snapping at their heels we can only look up to them from NIHL2 and envy their position having settled on a lack of ambition back in 2020.
Ho-hum, but at least we can look forward to the home game against Ashford Islanders on the weekend, and hope to break the 1,000 attendance figure!
We'd all love to see maybe 6-7000 and a roof raising atmosphere.
I think to move to a larger arena you would be looking at your ticket enquiries of sold out games.
Some companies make a note of how many they'd had.
So if on a sell out devils games your getting enquiries for over 500 tickets in all wanted by fans every sell out game you can judge that a 4000 would be suitable size arena and so on.
Not to bring a dark cloud over this topic because it's interesting BUT this covid has hit people hard, businesses have gone and will go under, thousands in south Wales alone have lost jobs so will a Devils game be a necessity?
It's cost me for the 2 of us around £60+ a game and with sometimes up to 8 games a month that's £480 a month, that's not small change if people are struggling so numbers could decrease by the time a season starts. We hope not but it could happen.
I think to move to a larger arena you would be looking at your ticket enquiries of sold out games.
Some companies make a note of how many they'd had.
So if on a sell out devils games your getting enquiries for over 500 tickets in all wanted by fans every sell out game you can judge that a 4000 would be suitable size arena and so on.
Not to bring a dark cloud over this topic because it's interesting BUT this covid has hit people hard, businesses have gone and will go under, thousands in south Wales alone have lost jobs so will a Devils game be a necessity?
It's cost me for the 2 of us around £60+ a game and with sometimes up to 8 games a month that's £480 a month, that's not small change if people are struggling so numbers could decrease by the time a season starts. We hope not but it could happen.
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You have a fair point about the hardship that people are going through. The thing is though that we're looking at this question through the lens of today's difficulties. One day though we will have a post covid world, and that will be the environment in which that arena will be built and operated in. Things will get better eventually.
In business you either keep moving forward or you fail. Todd knows far more about such things than I do. I have complete faith in whatever direction he, and the owners, decide to take us.
In business you either keep moving forward or you fail. Todd knows far more about such things than I do. I have complete faith in whatever direction he, and the owners, decide to take us.