Season ticket news
- Thread starter Hedd Wyn John
- Start date
I would hazard a guess it's simply because they are one of the usernames that is generally known who it is. In all fairness the current ownership have never pressured us for names unlike the Ragan era where it was a constant needling. A few people who haven't changed their user names since the old EIHL forums however, are fairly well known, and a few have voluntarily made it clear who they are.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say I'm more surprised that Jody/Mark wanted to renew than surprised he hasn't been allowed to.
People are allowed to express their opinion and say what they think of the season ticket price rise. But equally, businesses are allowed to decide who they do and don't want to do business with.
Criticise the decision all you want - but some of the comments have been personal and in my opinion well over the top. Some of the accusations aimed at Todd that he is greedy, doesn't care, wants to charge pensioners for using the lift etc. There wasn't any need for that.
We spend a lot of time in school's trying to teach pupils that comments on social media are not effect-free. Maybe some adults need to remember that too.
People are allowed to express their opinion and say what they think of the season ticket price rise. But equally, businesses are allowed to decide who they do and don't want to do business with.
Criticise the decision all you want - but some of the comments have been personal and in my opinion well over the top. Some of the accusations aimed at Todd that he is greedy, doesn't care, wants to charge pensioners for using the lift etc. There wasn't any need for that.
We spend a lot of time in school's trying to teach pupils that comments on social media are not effect-free. Maybe some adults need to remember that too.
But are they if evidence backs it? Biggest price hikes are for concussions and people suggesting charging for the lift is bit of banter, Greed does feel/come across as that. in most cases we are the most expensive for most things now. We are a free speaking country, so now you have to believe in someone else views(the club) if you want to be part of it.
Evidence backs what up?
Just my personal opinion, but anyone who claims or thinks this is greed is just being stupid. If the club wanted to be greedy they could rise ticket prices modestly and cut the players budget at the same time. If the club didn't care then they could increase the ticket prices at the same rate as they have and just let the club slip down the league table.
It's because they do care and they do want the club to be successful that they are making the controversial changes. And it is a gamble.
It might not work. Season ticket sales might drop, attendances fall and we become even less competitive.
But to claim that people are greedy or worse than Ragan is just ridiculous.
Just my personal opinion, but anyone who claims or thinks this is greed is just being stupid. If the club wanted to be greedy they could rise ticket prices modestly and cut the players budget at the same time. If the club didn't care then they could increase the ticket prices at the same rate as they have and just let the club slip down the league table.
It's because they do care and they do want the club to be successful that they are making the controversial changes. And it is a gamble.
It might not work. Season ticket sales might drop, attendances fall and we become even less competitive.
But to claim that people are greedy or worse than Ragan is just ridiculous.
Its the same in a lot of places, the theatre for example, where if you a purchasing a single (or more actually) seat they don't want people leaving loads of single seats as that will deter people from purchasing one-off if they can't sit together - it makes sense. I have no problem with it, I just hadn't cottoned on that it would apply to my ST. C'est la vie. I'd offer @Sheincar to come sit next to me but her current neighbours would miss her, and she can't stand my clapping etc 
Try leaving a single seat when purchasing any seats at the Devils, e.g. for a single game, and it does the same. I can move to a single seat nearby but then I won't be able to act as a windbreak/radiator for my neighbour!
Try leaving a single seat when purchasing any seats at the Devils, e.g. for a single game, and it does the same. I can move to a single seat nearby but then I won't be able to act as a windbreak/radiator for my neighbour!
@Finny I'd agree that any business has the right to refuse custom, and decide with whom it does business with (within reason, personally I think the lines are blurred legally at the moment, see: Christian bakers).
However, a business such as a pub (for example) has a different relationship with and responsibility to its customers than a company that owns a sports team. Now I'm not saying 'legal' obligations I mean 'morally'. Pubs have customers, they have to abide by the rules put in place by the license of that pub and any additional policies the pub may have. Behave badly and you will be barred, I'm fine with that. Thats about behaviour in that place. Exactly the same that if you misbehave at the Devils, get drunk, go on the ice, have a fight, I expect you to not be welcome back (or maybe get given a contract on the 4th line, either way! THAT IS A JOKE, TK!).
But what if I'm having a chat with my friends in the bar and saying that I think the prices are steep or the hockey hasn't been great? Should I expect to be kicked out?
In the pub example if you think a pint at one spot is too expensive or you don't like the staff, you can go down the road or buy a case at a supermarket and stay home. With the Devils you could go watch Fire, or watch NHL at home, but you can't just switch teams in your heart - if you see what I mean. If you want to watch EIHL standard hockey in person, you don't just ditch the Devils and go watch Blaze or the Steelers....thats the difference between a pub patron and a sports fan.
Companies who own sports teams are custodians for the club. I appreciate business decisions have to be made, but they also have to respect that they aren't just another business on the high street. Running a sports club comes with positives and negatives - you have a nearly 'captive' or 'addicted' customer base, who will generally let you do what you like as long as you don't push your luck. But fans will give feedback and discuss stuff online. When thats done on an independent website, and not shouted in the face of staff on site - or crossing the line into bullying/harassment/defamation....then to actively go out and say that a specific individual essentially isn't welcome at their club because of their opinions....thats not illegal at all, but its sure out of order.
However, a business such as a pub (for example) has a different relationship with and responsibility to its customers than a company that owns a sports team. Now I'm not saying 'legal' obligations I mean 'morally'. Pubs have customers, they have to abide by the rules put in place by the license of that pub and any additional policies the pub may have. Behave badly and you will be barred, I'm fine with that. Thats about behaviour in that place. Exactly the same that if you misbehave at the Devils, get drunk, go on the ice, have a fight, I expect you to not be welcome back (or maybe get given a contract on the 4th line, either way! THAT IS A JOKE, TK!).
But what if I'm having a chat with my friends in the bar and saying that I think the prices are steep or the hockey hasn't been great? Should I expect to be kicked out?
In the pub example if you think a pint at one spot is too expensive or you don't like the staff, you can go down the road or buy a case at a supermarket and stay home. With the Devils you could go watch Fire, or watch NHL at home, but you can't just switch teams in your heart - if you see what I mean. If you want to watch EIHL standard hockey in person, you don't just ditch the Devils and go watch Blaze or the Steelers....thats the difference between a pub patron and a sports fan.
Companies who own sports teams are custodians for the club. I appreciate business decisions have to be made, but they also have to respect that they aren't just another business on the high street. Running a sports club comes with positives and negatives - you have a nearly 'captive' or 'addicted' customer base, who will generally let you do what you like as long as you don't push your luck. But fans will give feedback and discuss stuff online. When thats done on an independent website, and not shouted in the face of staff on site - or crossing the line into bullying/harassment/defamation....then to actively go out and say that a specific individual essentially isn't welcome at their club because of their opinions....thats not illegal at all, but its sure out of order.
I agree with much of what you say. And the comparison with a pub is a good one, but I would disagree with one point.
if you were complaining to your friends in a bar that the prices were too high and were kicked out because of that - I think that would be harsh.
But if you were slagging off the owner and their staff - I don't think it would be unreasonable for the owner to ask you not to come again.
if you were complaining to your friends in a bar that the prices were too high and were kicked out because of that - I think that would be harsh.
But if you were slagging off the owner and their staff - I don't think it would be unreasonable for the owner to ask you not to come again.
Has anyone actually gone to a meeting and been told they're not welcome? Has anyone gone to the meeting at all? Apologies if so but I haven't seen anyone mention that they have. All this talk of fans being banned for saying things online, has anyone actually been banned? Although I agree it is unusual and unexpected for this to happen at all, the meeting could have been a chance for the club to explain some things and maybe clear the air.
Thats behaviour in person, having a go at staff or slagging off the owner in person in a bar...
Doesn't context come into this? This isn't in person at the rink, it's not tagging the Devils on social media and following up every single one of their posts with swear words and abuse....
Its an online forum. Away from the club. And I haven't seen any abuse.
Its not illegal to kick him out, but it looks awful for the club
Doesn't context come into this? This isn't in person at the rink, it's not tagging the Devils on social media and following up every single one of their posts with swear words and abuse....
Its an online forum. Away from the club. And I haven't seen any abuse.
Its not illegal to kick him out, but it looks awful for the club
i suspect people have but it be a condition that it is not to be spoken about outside the rink if they are allowed to stay.
As for caring, recent actions by the club would aim towards they care about the interests they have in the club, not the interests of fans(except happy clappers)
Just my opinion but anyone who thinks it all being done for the club and fans is stupid. No one in business does anything for free and nor should they, there will be some form in a return on investment, not all the extra revenue will go on players.
Sheffield and Belfast have upped the prices, the gap is the same.
The devils are playing a very dangerous game, history should teach us, clearly not here.
10 year business plan is complete, sell out games ect, now it time to get the return on investment!
As for caring, recent actions by the club would aim towards they care about the interests they have in the club, not the interests of fans(except happy clappers)
Just my opinion but anyone who thinks it all being done for the club and fans is stupid. No one in business does anything for free and nor should they, there will be some form in a return on investment, not all the extra revenue will go on players.
Sheffield and Belfast have upped the prices, the gap is the same.
The devils are playing a very dangerous game, history should teach us, clearly not here.
10 year business plan is complete, sell out games ect, now it time to get the return on investment!
As ever with Todd it’s not the what or why- most of us get it. It’s the how - people were going to hurt with some priced out but there is no empathy, no “sorry but we have explained the why”.
And, others will fill your shoes so we don’t care is entirely the wrong message. What’s wrong with “ this has been a hard decision but to retain a competitive club we had no choice and for those of you priced out we are sorry particularly if you've been a long time supporter"
BUT
The “club” have been building up to the current “long time fans don’t count” position:
*Treatment of long time volunteers
*Anthem reduced to an overloud record
*Pre-game Q&A -when was the last one by Todd and Franny
*Fan forum/council (whatever it was called) not meeting - at least visibly by publishing minutes
*Challenging grandparents at the game and in public re age of grandchild without a (not required) ticket
*And now seems Todd and Katrina no longer visible at games.
It's not just no empathy but a long term discarding of tradition turning a club into a business - which it is
But businesses do not neglect/reject a secure loyal base without some effort to placate them
And, others will fill your shoes so we don’t care is entirely the wrong message. What’s wrong with “ this has been a hard decision but to retain a competitive club we had no choice and for those of you priced out we are sorry particularly if you've been a long time supporter"
BUT
The “club” have been building up to the current “long time fans don’t count” position:
*Treatment of long time volunteers
*Anthem reduced to an overloud record
*Pre-game Q&A -when was the last one by Todd and Franny
*Fan forum/council (whatever it was called) not meeting - at least visibly by publishing minutes
*Challenging grandparents at the game and in public re age of grandchild without a (not required) ticket
*And now seems Todd and Katrina no longer visible at games.
It's not just no empathy but a long term discarding of tradition turning a club into a business - which it is
But businesses do not neglect/reject a secure loyal base without some effort to placate them