A Question For The Hockey Players Amongst Us

[Finny]

It's been mentioned quite a bit lately that our line changes aren't what they should. It could be argued that our line changes have always been bad at times for as many seasons as I can remember.

However, having never played the game I don't know the answer to the question "Whose responsibility is it that it goes right?"

Should the coach/bench coach constantly be checking who is going on and off the ice. I can imagine at junior level the coach having to tell the kids who is going on and who is coming off. However, surely by the time they are professional they should know who is replacing who?

Most of the time it's the same lines rotating. So if you are a centre and you see the centre coming off, you know you have to jump onto the ice as they come off.

This is only my guess though, as I have never played the game. On here we have quite a few people who play - whether it be at ENL level, Rec level, Comets or LTP.

 

[Anonymous]

http://hockeyplayertips.blogspot.com/20 ... n-fly.html
It seems like the coach calls the shots and its then up to the players to get it right?

 

[Jones72]

http://hockeyplayertips.blogspot.com/2008/04/line-changing-on-fly.html
It seems like the coach calls the shots and its then up to the players to get it right?

From my own very limited Rec. experience, for on-the-fly changes the bench coach will call the next line and then it's up to the players to get out there at the appropriate time. A matter of communication between the exiting player and the replacing player.

Face-offs are a different matter...generally a case of the home-team coach checking out the away team line and sending out the appropriate line to match them.

If anyone disagrees then I'm sure I'll be corrected, but in essence that's how it goes: mixture of coach judgement and player-discipline

 

[Mooney#16]

The players have to get it right first and foremost. You go on when your corresponding man comes off. Sat on the bench the coach will say which line is up next and you simply take you're man ie centre for centre and wing for wing.

The coaches can only ask the players to carry out a task and its down to them to execute. Apart for physically grabbing players what else can they do to prevent it.

However here is the good bit. The game is played by humans and not robots and there is such a thing as human error. Guys make mistakes. They can be a bit quick in getting on or slow in getting of. The dump in may not go deep enough and force a guy to delay a change to block a lane and also players on opposition teams can be alot more canny than you think. Quite often you will see a dump in be fired back in the direction of the benches as a line change is happening to try and hit an on coming player before his man has made it off and hey presto a too many men call.

The one yesterday seemed to stem from a powerplay coming to an end as the Devils had been playing a forward on the point and when he changed there was a confusion on whether a Dman was replacing him or another forward and two guys jumped on for one off. If it were me I'd blame the second forward on as he should have been switched on enough to know the powerplay was over and they would be returning to two D men. I assume this is whichever forward plays point on either the first or second unit. However the coaches should perhaps have intervened in this scenario to call an end to the powerplay lines.

Overall its the players responsibility but its a sport. It doesn't always go to script. Afterall it still happens in the show and thats the most heavily coached and analysed league in the world so you can talk about it until the cows come home. It'll still happen now and again..

 

[puck]

Overall its the players responsibility but its a sport. It doesn't always go to script. Afterall it still happens in the show and thats the most heavily coached and analysed league in the world so you can talk about it until the cows come home. It'll still happen now and again..

Now and again is manageable, it has been happening far too much lately and the buck has to stop with theTWO bench coaches at some point.

If part of the problem is the constant changes of line-mates when we're continually on the PK or PP then that is also a coaching issue. The indiscipline of the players when dealing with the ref on Sunday was appalling - you learn by your mistakes, if your team-mate gets a ten minute for swearing you get your head down and get on with the game - you don't let 3 of you get a ten minute and then one of you a match. That kind of problem is obviously down to the players, but it is also a coaching issue - a coach should be instructing his team not to respond to the ref and players who respect their coach should be doing what they're told.

 

[James]

Has it though. The usual reason is the scenario that Mooney has stated where it hits someone leaving the ice by the benches. Sundays was a bit of a flamingo up but it was far from the norm.

 

[Finny]

Thanks to the guys for their views.

The reason I asked, is because I'm starting to notice that one player seems to be involved in most of our too many/too few incidents. Though I don't think it would be fair to say who on a forum, especially as I could well be wrong.

 

[Jones72]

Thanks to the guys for their views.

The reason I asked, is because I'm starting to notice that one player seems to be involved in most of our too many/too few incidents. Though I don't think it would be fair to say who on a forum, especially as I could well be wrong.

Who?!


Just kidding!

 

[Mark666]

Maybe someone should write an article for the program about this. Its something i often get asked when i bring a total newbie to the tent, not many sports have anything similar. How do they know its their turn? Why do they change so often? etc.
Just a thought.

There's enough info on this page to just copy and paste one together pretty much.

PS. If anyone is interested I've got the relevant email address for article submission somewhere.

 

[Anonymous]

I asked my Slovakian friend at work today who's hockey mad and he's said pretty much the same. If a line change goes wrong its generally the players error. Lately we have been called for "too many men" which is undoubtedly the players fault, skating onto the ice before the other player leaves the ice. School boy error in my book. Please no-one laugh but I have always thought that they change so often simply due to player fatigue, to give them regular rests so to speak? :?

 

[coach09]

At under 16's the players are (with exception of the rookies of 3 months or less) complete the line changes them selves.

As Mooney suggested a player is responsible for substituting themselves for their like positioned team mate. Although there maybe circumstances where an alternate player may need to replace one of a different position-defender leaves the Penalty box and as there are two on the ice a forward would replace him, this is the only time a coach would need to instruct a single player. (Unless you're mixing the lines or rotating players among lines)

As for the puck hitting a player at the benches the player on the ice is legitimate participant the man joining cannot play the puck (or opposition players body) until his counter part has left the ice. Most officials will give you the benefit of the doubt in this occasion. If the puck in advertantly hits a departing player it is of no consequence. In theory every player on the bench could join the ice and then get off again provided their substitute is making his way to the bench, none of the new players move toward the opposition or deliberately contact the puck.

Ultimately bench management comes down to the coach and his assistants, if a player fails to follow instruction he needs better coaching or better instruction.

 

[Mooney#16]

The basics behind changing lines is of course player fatigue related. Simply if you go out on the ice and skate as hard as you can no matter what level of player you are your speed and energy will start to drop off somewhere between 30-45 seconds later. If as a team you wish to play at the highest possible tempo and keep your energy levels late into the game the best policy is to keep the shifts within this 30-45 second window. Hence most players will know after approx 45 seconds to try and get a dump in for the safest possible change to take place. If the puck goes in they generally just turn and head straight for the bench. No coach involvement.

However there are then coaching influences that are brought to bare on this as coaches try to match lines or get a quick change to catch another coach out. Powerplay lines and penalty killing will make some guys double shift so this pattern of roling through lines is disrupted. If players are being over utilised and fatiguing to much late on in games then that is of course a coaching issue as that has to be recognised and addressed.

Being a member of the hindsight committee allows you to become one hell of a arm chair pundit though. We could all say where its going wrong but you've got to try to present options for putting it right to actually have your opinion be of any benefit or credability.

For my ten pence I think the lines need to be settled once and for all as the players have played as so many combinations the lines seem very disjointed and uncohesive and maybe this is slightly manifesting itself through the dodgy line changes.

 

[NOISYGIRL]

I don't think it helps when the lines are changed all the time, they prob can't remember WHO they're on the line with

 

[Jones72]

I don't think it helps when the lines are changed all the time, they prob can't remember WHO they're on the line with

More to the point, they can't remember who they are supposed to be replacing...which then relies on the departing player calling which position they're playing for that shift...and the replacement player hearing him.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorting out who's on what line and keeping it that way is the key. As mentioned before, they keep changing the lines and the players obviously cant adjust accordingly.