Devils coach 10/11 season

[ASHIPP]

Probably get shot down in flames here, but how about Doug Christiansen. He has ways found good players for Edinburgh despite there obvious financial problems, Hurtubise, Whatever that netminders name is from last night, Rodakowsky?? Fussey, Welch, Horne, they sure as hell all play for him.
I think he shows he is prepared to try something different, when defending he'll leave one of his forwards up the ice, i'm not saying it works allthe time but its different, shows imagination.
Plus with Matt Burge in his third year of a three year plan, he'll be looking for success, maybe Christainsen would be that man with some sound financial backing.
I know people will say what has he done for Edinburgh, what has he won, well i think he has won respect of a lot of people around the league, with his sheer commitment to a club who have struggled for a number of seasons.
Prior to games this season, he has been observed having one to ones with his players outside the dressing rooms, teling his players exactly what is expected of them, leaving them in no doubt.
If we dont, i wouldnt be surprised if a club like Sheffield looked at him, as people like Simmsy always talk extremely highly of him.

Christiansen has the knack of instilling a great work ethic in his teams and always seems to find some unknown gems of players over the years - Hurtubise last year, Lambert this year. But he's been in Scotland for years. Would be difficult to get a happy man to move!
p.s. also get the impression he is v highly respected in the sport.....and a lovely bloke too.

 

[Max Beerbarrell]

Probably get shot down in flames here, but how about Doug Christiansen. He has ways found good players for Edinburgh despite there obvious financial problems, Hurtubise, Whatever that netminders name is from last night, Rodakowsky?? Fussey, Welch, Horne, they sure as hell all play for him.
I think he shows he is prepared to try something different, when defending he'll leave one of his forwards up the ice, i'm not saying it works allthe time but its different, shows imagination.
Plus with Matt Burge in his third year of a three year plan, he'll be looking for success, maybe Christainsen would be that man with some sound financial backing.
I know people will say what has he done for Edinburgh, what has he won, well i think he has won respect of a lot of people around the league, with his sheer commitment to a club who have struggled for a number of seasons.
Prior to games this season, he has been observed having one to ones with his players outside the dressing rooms, teling his players exactly what is expected of them, leaving them in no doubt.
If we dont, i wouldnt be surprised if a club like Sheffield looked at him, as people like Simmsy always talk extremely highly of him.

Touching on what you said there about DC having one-to-ones with his players, I sit in block 14 and we can see the dressing room area quite clearly. It always amazes me, even when we are under-performing, that the players are often walking around, adjusting kit, genereally not sat in the dressing room getting and tactical instructions or motivation during period breaks. Don't get me wrong, I dont see or hear what does go on inside the changin room but it always amazes me when I see the players not in the dressing room for at least half the time given to coaches between periods. I've played a decent level of sport and during every half-time break, the manager will try and use every minute of the break to his advantage, that doesn't seem to happen down the rink.

I just want to stress that I'm in no way in the 'Adams out' camp, I don't have enough knowledge of other coaches that are out there to call for his head. Doug Christeansen is a coach I have alot of respect for though.

Max

 

[ASHIPP]

Expect a few clubs have tried to lure him away from Edinburgh before....maybe he is very settled there. Excellent player and great coach.

 

[E.D.S.]

Probably get shot down in flames here, but how about Doug Christiansen. He has ways found good players for Edinburgh despite there obvious financial problems, Hurtubise, Whatever that netminders name is from last night, Rodakowsky?? Fussey, Welch, Horne, they sure as hell all play for him.
I think he shows he is prepared to try something different, when defending he'll leave one of his forwards up the ice, i'm not saying it works allthe time but its different, shows imagination.
Plus with Matt Burge in his third year of a three year plan, he'll be looking for success, maybe Christainsen would be that man with some sound financial backing.
I know people will say what has he done for Edinburgh, what has he won, well i think he has won respect of a lot of people around the league, with his sheer commitment to a club who have struggled for a number of seasons.
Prior to games this season, he has been observed having one to ones with his players outside the dressing rooms, teling his players exactly what is expected of them, leaving them in no doubt.
If we dont, i wouldnt be surprised if a club like Sheffield looked at him, as people like Simmsy always talk extremely highly of him.

Christiansen has the knack of instilling a great work ethic in his teams and always seems to find some unknown gems of players over the years - Hurtubise last year, Lambert this year. But he's been in Scotland for years. Would be difficult to get a happy man to move!
p.s. also get the impression he is v highly respected in the sport.....and a lovely bloke too.

I personally would like to see a change of coach now. Big fan of Christiansen and Thornton - if it was to be either of them. If it was Christiansen I think we could safely assume that Brad definitely isn't returning given the fact they don't particularly like each other.
I personally think we should change the coach now. We're not in contention for the league and what harm can it do as we go into the CC Final. Our away form is terrible - with or without a new coach. The playoffs are still some time away - at least enough time for a new coach to come in, assess the players he has and make some changes to lines, set plays, training and coaching methods. No idea who is available but I just feel if you look at certain key aspects like:
- bench penalties
- poor performing 'star' players
- poor away form
- poor powerplay
- lack of ideas.
a change is definitely required.
I'm a fan of G's and fully supported his decision during the Prpich incident but I feel that we need a change and we should change it now. Just an opinion.

 

[Finny]

I personally think we should change the coach now. ..... what harm can it do as we go into the CC Final. .

 

[E.D.S.]

??

Apologies, Finny was something not clear?

Based on current form it's highly unlikely that we'll cause Notts (of the Shuff) too much trouble away from home (although, of course I hope we do) and whilst some people would take a CC cup (or even just an appearance in the final) and a 4th place finish as good enough, personally 4th place is a bit of a red herring for me. It's the points difference between us and those above us that is the real test. We're not streets ahead of the Edinburghs and Hull's of this world as most of us expect - we're pretty much punching at the right weight when we play them. Which for me isn't good enough. A bit extreme I know but I'd rather finish 5th and be 4/5 points off the champions (highly unlikely I know but I hope you get the sentiment).
I don't see a potential 4th place finish, a CC cup and an appearance at the playoffs a great success. I think it's good but it's not great and it certainly shouldn't be enough to make people keep quiet and not question the coaches role and position. Personally I'd like to see a change made. Even if we do win the CC cup that shouldn't be enough. The points difference is too great between us and the top 3. We're a bottom 5 side not a top 4 team in my opinion (appreciate it's a glass half empty/glass half full perspective but that's just how I perceive our season).

 

[Finny]

??

Apologies, Finny was something not clear?

I can't understand why you would suggest there is nothing wrong in bringing in a new coach before the CC final?
Sorry, but for me that is madness. We're all frustrated by the poor results and form in recent games - but I really do think that sacking a coach midway through the season when 2 of the 3 main trophies are still up for grabs is madness. I could understand why people at the end of the season would want to look at the coach's position - but 2 weeks before a major final?

Hypothetical question: Who would you bring in now?

 

[august04]

I can't understand why you would suggest there is nothing wrong in bringing in a new coach before the CC final?
Sorry, but for me that is madness. We're all frustrated by the poor results and form in recent games - but I really do think that sacking a coach midway through the season when 2 of the 3 main trophies are still up for grabs is madness. I could understand why people at the end of the season would want to look at the coach's position - but 2 weeks before a major final?

Hypothetical question: Who would you bring in now?

The big problem is whether we could get a better coach in at this stage of the season. If we had someone suitable in mind, then why not change now? The way we're playing, we're not going to win the Challenge Cup against a far superior Nottingham team (unless they blow up in the 2nd leg against Sheffield, which looks unlikely at the moment). You see it quite often in other sports - a new coach/manager comes in and you get an immediate response from players trying to impress the new guy and secure their jobs! This might be a great time to make a coaching change, IF a suitable candidate is out there that we can get in. We might just see an improvement in time for the CC final and the play-offs. Failing that, I'm prepared to wait until the off-season for that change. Even if we do manage somehow to win the CC, the league position and the way we're playing is still unacceptable in my opinion and we need some big changes in the summer. No doubt some will start spouting the 3 year plan crap again. Not an excuse for what we've seen this year.

 

[E.D.S.]

Fair challenge Finny. As for who I would bring in....I don't have the means or access to know who would be available and would rather stay out of that debate as it would merely be a wish list with little substance. I'm not a fan of bringing anyone back as has been suggested in other posts. I'd like a fresh start, someone new with new ideas. Personally, there is a stale feeling about the Devils (we seem to recycle a lot of the same players - they leave and come back - we seem to have the same plays and I can't remember the last season when we had a threatening, edge of your seat powerplay). It would be great to have someone with new ideas and links to new players.
I completely understand why you would think that changing a coach 2/3 weeks before a challenge cup final would be "madness" but persistent poor results, especially away from home, all season and not changing anything is "madness" for me. As mentioned before even if we do win the CC that's papering over the cracks. There are far greater issues that need to be addressed and a change at the top is priority for me.
Let's say we do change the coach and lose in Notts 4-1 (or something like that) what would be any different? That wouldn't be as a result of the new coach coming in, it would be business as usual but atleast he'd be in position to see what's happening and have time to make changes, assess players and get us in a decent position for the playoffs and also be in prime position for next season - I don't quite understand why teams, in all sports, change coaches at the end of the season and then have a massive rebuilding job to do, i'd rather see someone hit the ground running and be better placed and more informed as a result of seeing the team play some of the season.

 

[DevilDom]

??

Apologies, Finny was something not clear?

I can't understand why you would suggest there is nothing wrong in bringing in a new coach before the CC final?
Sorry, but for me that is madness. We're all frustrated by the poor results and form in recent games - but I really do think that sacking a coach midway through the season when 2 of the 3 main trophies are still up for grabs is madness. I could understand why people at the end of the season would want to look at the coach's position - but 2 weeks before a major final?

Hypothetical question: Who would you bring in now?

I'm not sure who is available now, as I don't really keep track of that part of the game, however I agree that we should change the coach now if there is someone decent available.

I think G has had fair crack now and regardless of what happens in the CC final (personally I think we will be embarassed) we need to think longer term and I don't think he is the man to get us challenging at the top of the league. If and it is a big if we win the CC and retain G on that basis it will only paper over the cracks of what has been a very dissappointing 2nd half of the season.

A new coach now could assess the players we have and decide who he would like to retain for next season. I think most people on this site know who the performers are and are not, but a new coach needs to make that decision so hopefully we can have a better tilt at the play-offs and maybe hit the ground running (for a change) next season.

 

[Finny]

.... however I agree that we should change the coach now if there is someone decent available.

"Decent"?
Is that all we are willing to want for our team now? "Decent".

If we were going to bring in a new coach I would expect them to be described as "Good" at the least.
But as I was trying to point out - who is out there? I can't imagine any of the current EIHL coaches wanting to join us mid-season. Nor any of the EPL coaches.

I can understand people saying that a new coach should be brought in mid-season. It's a good idea as it allows the coach time to get used to Britain and the EIHL - especially as I would want us to go for an experienced N. American coach who has had success in somewhere like the ECHL. Anything else would be just hit and miss.
Thornton has had a massive budget to spend in Belfast but some of his signing decisions are baffling and have IMO cost them the ability to win the league. And I say that as someone who was a massive fan of his as a player.
Christiansen is an interesting thought, however despite putting together an exciting looking team last season for me he under-achieved. And I remember a couple of Caps fans on THF not being too excited over his return.

But regardless of all that, I still think Adams deserves more time. Some people don't like talk of the "3 Year Plan" but I think we do have to take that into account.
Adams took over the club midway through the season under Bob and led us to a BK Cup and Playoffs Final. Until the club was sold to Matt Burge he had to cope with wagecuts and all the other nonsense you got under Bob.
Last season he was given a lower budget than the top 4, finished 5th and probably would have done better had it not been for the injuries.
This season he has finally been given a full budget (though still not as much as Belfast and Nottm if you believe the 'rumours'). Most of us at the start of the season predicted a top 3/4 finish and a decent showing in the CC and playoffs.
For me there was too much of a change in personell for us to really challenge for the title. Perhaps our good start to the season gave us a bit too much hope.

If the decision was up to me I would not even consider replacing Adams at this point. I would give him the summer and the chance to finetune his team. If at this point next year we are still way off the league challenge they I would agree we should be looking to bring a new coach in mid-season to allow him time to get used to the EIHL.

 

[osh]

.... however I agree that we should change the coach now if there is someone decent available.

"

If the decision was up to me I would not even consider replacing Adams at this point. I would give him the summer and the chance to finetune his team. If at this point next year we are still way off the league challenge they I would agree we should be looking to bring a new coach in mid-season to allow him time to get used to the EIHL.

Just as well the decision isn't up to you then Finny ! But, let's face it, the only person that will make such a decision is the owner and he has already stated his 3 year plan which may include giving Gerad another season ! However, unless we get a modicum of success, and by that I mean winning the CC, staying in 4th position until seasons end, and give it a good show in the play offs ( if we get there ) then can see a parting of the ways. As for coach availability, who knows ? You mention finetuning in the summer, how fine would your tuning be Finny? How many players of the present team do you want back next year ? The terminolgy 'finetuning' sounds very much like minimal changes to me, if that is your take on things then god help us !

 

[Gazza272]

.... however I agree that we should change the coach now if there is someone decent available.

"

If the decision was up to me I would not even consider replacing Adams at this point. I would give him the summer and the chance to finetune his team. If at this point next year we are still way off the league challenge they I would agree we should be looking to bring a new coach in mid-season to allow him time to get used to the EIHL.

Just as well the decision isn't up to you then Finny ! But, let's face it, the only person that will make such a decision is the owner and he has already stated his 3 year plan which may include giving Gerad another season ! However, unless we get a modicum of success, and by that I mean winning the CC, staying in 4th position until seasons end, and give it a good show in the play offs ( if we get there ) then can see a parting of the ways. As for coach availability, who knows ? You mention finetuning in the summer, how fine would your tuning be Finny? How many players of the present team do you want back next year ? The terminolgy 'finetuning' sounds very much like minimal changes to me, if that is your take on things then god help us !

I'm a bit confused Osh to be honest.

You wouldnt have many of this seasons squad back next season then i take it? in which case why is it such a coaching error things are going wrong? Unless your saying Gerad got it so wrong in the summer that the majority of his squad isnt up to scratch? But then since you want the coach changed, that to me suggests that the players we have are fit for purpose and as such why would we want to be getting rid of the majority of them?



For what its worth i dont think there are many parts of our squad that on their own are bad players, Max is still our top point scorer and has turned it on against the big teams (he seems to have a decent scoring touch against Coventry at home anyway!)


Given our form up until the last few weeks (despite the away form which has been well documented) i cant see how there are massive failings in both the coach and the team at the same time, as your posts seem to suggest (although i may be interpreting them wrongly)

 

[Finny]

3 new import forwards. 1 new import defenceman. 1 new Brit forward.

 

[osh]

Gazza 272; Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. To clarify, first and foremost I don't think Gerad is a good coach, I'd change him. At no stage have I stated getting rid of the 'majority of players' as you suggest, but having said that I would go for 6 new imports, I Brit and ensure our home grown Brits get the ice time they so deserve to raise them to a higher level. I also haven't said that any of our players are bad players. I just don't think that 50% of them are not playing to the standard that they obviously can, and haven't been doing for some time. the coach can't raise their game so something has to be done, and so you now know what I think is necessary ( we will all differ on our views of course.

Finny ; Fair play to you, 3 import forwards, 1 import D and 1 new Brit ( but the same coach I take it ? ) well it's a start !

 

[DevilDom]

.... however I agree that we should change the coach now if there is someone decent available.

"Decent"?
Is that all we are willing to want for our team now? "Decent".

If we were going to bring in a new coach I would expect them to be described as "Good" at the least.
But as I was trying to point out - who is out there? I can't imagine any of the current EIHL coaches wanting to join us mid-season. Nor any of the EPL coaches.

I can understand people saying that a new coach should be brought in mid-season. It's a good idea as it allows the coach time to get used to Britain and the EIHL - especially as I would want us to go for an experienced N. American coach who has had success in somewhere like the ECHL. Anything else would be just hit and miss.
Thornton has had a massive budget to spend in Belfast but some of his signing decisions are baffling and have IMO cost them the ability to win the league. And I say that as someone who was a massive fan of his as a player.
Christiansen is an interesting thought, however despite putting together an exciting looking team last season for me he under-achieved. And I remember a couple of Caps fans on THF not being too excited over his return.

But regardless of all that, I still think Adams deserves more time. Some people don't like talk of the "3 Year Plan" but I think we do have to take that into account.
Adams took over the club midway through the season under Bob and led us to a BK Cup and Playoffs Final. Until the club was sold to Matt Burge he had to cope with wagecuts and all the other nonsense you got under Bob.
Last season he was given a lower budget than the top 4, finished 5th and probably would have done better had it not been for the injuries.
This season he has finally been given a full budget (though still not as much as Belfast and Nottm if you believe the 'rumours'). Most of us at the start of the season predicted a top 3/4 finish and a decent showing in the CC and playoffs.
For me there was too much of a change in personell for us to really challenge for the title. Perhaps our good start to the season gave us a bit too much hope.

If the decision was up to me I would not even consider replacing Adams at this point. I would give him the summer and the chance to finetune his team. If at this point next year we are still way off the league challenge they I would agree we should be looking to bring a new coach in mid-season to allow him time to get used to the EIHL.

Ok, I'll define "decent". Decent to me is better than good and is someone who will get the best out of the players he chooses to sign. Something G has failed to do this season.

I understand there were significant changes during the close season however the way we play is so inconsistent that the coach has to take a big part of the blame. Its obvious this group of players can play together and can play very well when we get things right, however constant line changes, lack of direction, poor discipline and an apparent lack of commitment by some players has to come back to the coach IMO. Yes the players are partly to blame too but I just find it too perplexing how we can be so good some weeks and so bad on others. If certain players are distruptive or not pulling their weight whether through commitment or lack of ability it is the coach's job to sort them out (or act and gas them).

TBH the way things are are on the ice at the moment, I can't see us winning the CC and we'll be lucky to even qualify for the play-off weekend how poor we are playing at the moment.

 

[kettdevil1]

Gazza 272; Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. To clarify, first and foremost I don't think Gerad is a good coach, I'd change him. At no stage have I stated getting rid of the 'majority of players' as you suggest, but having said that I would go for 6 new imports, I Brit and ensure our home grown Brits get the ice time they so deserve to raise them to a higher level. I also haven't said that any of our players are bad players. I just don't think that 50% of them are not playing to the standard that they obviously can, and haven't been doing for some time. the coach can't raise their game so something has to be done, and so you now know what I think is necessary ( we will all differ on our views of course.
quote]

But with the greatest of respect there are a number of problems with this argument.
1) Changing 6 imports is pretty radical surgery and unless you got incredibly lucky with recruitment would mean that we wouldn't be challenging for the title next year. Coventry and Sheffield have shown how to win titles. Nottingham with their constant changes have shown how not to...
2) Ensuring our home grown Brits get the ice time they deserve is pretty laudable but won't necessarily win you any more matches. Ben has got significant ice time this year, so has Symonds, Jamie Hayes has maybe got a little less than he would have liked but I'm not sure how giving them more will improve us?

 

[osh]

kettdevil1; Ref your piont 1) Yes, changing 6 imports is pretty radical, and yes we would need to be either lucky with new imports or if a new coach is appointed, then that coach would already be aware of players he would like to bring in with him. I notice you question my logic, but you fail to come up with any other suggestion. Do you honestly feel that we should keep Adams and make minimal changes for next season ? I believe making minimal changes will see us in the same league position this time next season, and that's not good enough for me.

2) Our Brits haven't got the ice time they deserve. Let's not forget, we can't run a team on imports only, so we have to have our allocation of Brits, so make it a good core of players and play them on a third line if necessary because I certainlty haven't seen any opposition third lines that frighten me this season ( but I admit I haven't seem as many games as normal this season due to commitments elsewhere )

So there we have it. What are your views to get us winning things again then ( please don't offer the three year plan, that's just an opt out in my opinion )

 

[kettdevil1]

kettdevil1; Ref your piont 1) Yes, changing 6 imports is pretty radical, and yes we would need to be either lucky with new imports or if a new coach is appointed, then that coach would already be aware of players he would like to bring in with him. I notice you question my logic, but you fail to come up with any other suggestion. Do you honestly feel that we should keep Adams and make minimal changes for next season ? I believe making minimal changes will see us in the same league position this time next season, and that's not good enough for me.

2) Our Brits haven't got the ice time they deserve. Let's not forget, we can't run a team on imports only, so we have to have our allocation of Brits, so make it a good core of players and play them on a third line if necessary because I certainlty haven't seen any opposition third lines that frighten me this season ( but I admit I haven't seem as many games as normal this season due to commitments elsewhere )

So there we have it. What are your views to get us winning things again then ( please don't offer the three year plan, that's just an opt out in my opinion )

Fair question and one that I'm not 100% sure what the answer is... I will have a go though.

I like G but I think the rest of the season will decide whether he stays or goes. I am 50/50 - if we win the CC and do well in the playoffs then I'm happy if stays, if not he doesn't.

If he stays I would suggest the following plan:
1) Use our bigger players more effectively. We very rarely put someone in front of the net, instead we keep cycling the puck until we lose it.
2) Stop signing ex-players. How many players have ever been better the second time around? OK, apart from Phil....
3) Stop the dumb penalties. This has been a problem throughout Gs reign. Some of the reffing decisions are rubbish, yapping won't change them though.
4) We need a D man who can consistently carry the puck forward on the Powerplay (ie a Weaver type player) We can't always rely on Wes.
5) We need a sniper. It is blatantly obvious that Smith has not been fit for most of the season, Max has never been that sort of player and after that we are struggling. Watching Fulgham a few weeks ago brought home the point that we lack someone who can have 4 chances and score 3 goals.
6) Sort out the lines
7) We are 1 Brit forward short of a top squad. Ben might be the answer but it is too early to say for sure.
8) Work out what to do with Brad. Is he allowed to play his natural game, is he to be plonked in front of the net, is he to be muzzled?
9) Sort out the organisational issues. You never hear about Coventry messing up travel arrangements or having equipment problems.
10) Target an away game, any game and throw absolutely everything at it. I don't care if we lose the game the next day 10-0 just treat it as a Cup Final. That way (if we win...) we might actually start believing in ourselves away from home rather than simply dropping our heads when the puck doesn't bounce our way.

Fire away!

 

[Max Beerbarrell]

.... however I agree that we should change the coach now if there is someone decent available.

"Decent"?
Is that all we are willing to want for our team now? "Decent".

If we were going to bring in a new coach I would expect them to be described as "Good" at the least.
But as I was trying to point out - who is out there? I can't imagine any of the current EIHL coaches wanting to join us mid-season. Nor any of the EPL coaches.

I can understand people saying that a new coach should be brought in mid-season. It's a good idea as it allows the coach time to get used to Britain and the EIHL - especially as I would want us to go for an experienced N. American coach who has had success in somewhere like the ECHL. Anything else would be just hit and miss.
Thornton has had a massive budget to spend in Belfast but some of his signing decisions are baffling and have IMO cost them the ability to win the league. And I say that as someone who was a massive fan of his as a player.
Christiansen is an interesting thought, however despite putting together an exciting looking team last season for me he under-achieved. And I remember a couple of Caps fans on THF not being too excited over his return.

But regardless of all that, I still think Adams deserves more time. Some people don't like talk of the "3 Year Plan" but I think we do have to take that into account.
Adams took over the club midway through the season under Bob and led us to a BK Cup and Playoffs Final. Until the club was sold to Matt Burge he had to cope with wagecuts and all the other nonsense you got under Bob.
Last season he was given a lower budget than the top 4, finished 5th and probably would have done better had it not been for the injuries.
This season he has finally been given a full budget (though still not as much as Belfast and Nottm if you believe the 'rumours'). Most of us at the start of the season predicted a top 3/4 finish and a decent showing in the CC and playoffs.
For me there was too much of a change in personell for us to really challenge for the title. Perhaps our good start to the season gave us a bit too much hope.

If the decision was up to me I would not even consider replacing Adams at this point. I would give him the summer and the chance to finetune his team. If at this point next year we are still way off the league challenge they I would agree we should be looking to bring a new coach in mid-season to allow him time to get used to the EIHL.

Finny - nail, hit, head. I have no more to say that that.

Max