Increased activity outside IAW …..

Finny

Finny

Well-Known Member
#61
#61
august04 2.0 said:
Cavalier charge into the abyss? Good grief man, we’re campaigning for an ice rink in Wales (or maybe 2!) to be allowed to open, just as they are in every other part of the UK.
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Are you sure about that?
Scotland still has regions in different tiers and their government website is a bit vague about it - but it looks like only those areas in lowest tiers can open?
Had a look at some Scottish rink websites and some are open whilst others appear to be closed.
 
august04 2.0

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
#62
#62
Finny said:
Are you sure about that?
Scotland still has regions in different tiers and their government website is a bit vague about it - but it looks like only those areas in lowest tiers can open?
Had a look at some Scottish rink websites and some are open whilst others appear to be closed.
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You haven’t changed Finny, typical deflection tactics! There are ice rinks open in Scotland, England and Northern Ireland. All we’re asking is to be treated the same in Wales - and if Scotland had the same rate of infection as there is in Wales, all would be open there too, if they’re not already.
 
M

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
#63
#63
pjj365 said:
The TAG report needs an informed critique if that is what WG is relying on - even that is not certain. One thing is certain is that the report focuses a lot on outdoor/pop up rinks

There should though be plenty of current data about - yes the incidents in England but excluding the EIHL series which was held in a bubble so is unrepresentative. There should also be historic data - for example from the Arena accident book and ticketing system + nos of visiting players, patch subscriptions etc - the number of A&E visits per head of attendees can be arrived at to, hopefully, debunk the non-Covid pressure on A&E (say March 2019 to March 2020)

Whether we (or the club) can provide like for like data from other countries is debatable as is whether it is relevant
Also historic or real world data does not seem to count at the moment - everything is based on forward modelling which by definition, and at best, is flawed. There also appears (not surprisingly) a lot of emotion about. Just look at today's spat between Greater Manchester and Scotland

So, we should support Todd in his endeavours. We need to be careful what we wish for - Todd will have talked to WG about viable capacity whereas our plea to just hope up could result in - "there you go then get on with it" only for Todd to reject the inevitable opening with restrictions on viability grounds.

You are right focus is needed - the perfect petition would have been better based on how it would help Todd and what it can add. I'm sorry to, say were I FM I would reject the petition on the grounds that it ignores Deeside when he is taking a whole of Wales approach. Nevertheless we should support it. Similarly I would support a protest outside the Senedd but an organised one bringing to the fore Labour touch points in Comets, Huskies and juniors

All this, appart from the petition, is in the ether at the moment. To take things forward we do need advise nd guidance from Todd
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The idea of a whole Wales approach is frankly ludicrous, particularly with only two locations involved. The needs of the South east are quite different to the rest of Wales.
 
G

Gospel

Active Member
#64
#64
What would be viable for the organisation to be able to run this season? Todd has already said it couldnt be done unless the arena is able to be full capacity. Has that changed?

What if the WG says "OK, open the arena, it can be used for training for all sports (at different times) but for a game it can only be allowed to operate at 50% of max capacity for fans" Could that work financially for the Devils? Who decides what fans are allowed in? Would the players have to be in a "bubble" of some kind? Could fans show a recent negative covid test result to get in?

Would fans be happy for the arena to be fully opened for sports but not for fans to attend to watch Devils games?
 
Finny

Finny

Well-Known Member
#65
#65
august04 2.0 said:
You haven’t changed Finny, typical deflection tactics! There are ice rinks open in Scotland, England and Northern Ireland. All we’re asking is to be treated the same in Wales - and if Scotland had the same rate of infection as there is in Wales, all would be open there too, if they’re not already.
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What was I trying to deflect from?
I was asking if all ice rinks in Scotland are definitely open? If they are then they need to update their own websites which say they are closed.
 
Finny

Finny

Well-Known Member
#66
#66
Gospel said:
What would be viable for the organisation to be able to run this season? Todd has already said it couldnt be done unless the arena is able to be full capacity. Has that changed?

What if the WG says "OK, open the arena, it can be used for training for all sports (at different times) but for a game it can only be allowed to operate at 50% of max capacity for fans" Could that work financially for the Devils? Who decides what fans are allowed in? Would the players have to be in a "bubble" of some kind? Could fans show a recent negative covid test result to get in?

Would fans be happy for the arena to be fully opened for sports but not for fans to attend to watch Devils games?
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I've not been on here much for the past 18 months so apologies if I've missed it, but I was wondering the same thing.

Yes ice rinks are open in England and some/part of Scotland. But at the moment no UK country would allow an ice hockey game to have more than 1000 spectators.
 
Wannabe2

Wannabe2

Well-Known Member
#67
#67
Gospel said:
What would be viable for the organisation to be able to run this season? Todd has already said it couldnt be done unless the arena is able to be full capacity. Has that changed?

What if the WG says "OK, open the arena, it can be used for training for all sports (at different times) but for a game it can only be allowed to operate at 50% of max capacity for fans" Could that work financially for the Devils? Who decides what fans are allowed in? Would the players have to be in a "bubble" of some kind? Could fans show a recent negative covid test result to get in?

Would fans be happy for the arena to be fully opened for sports but not for fans to attend to watch Devils games?
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If no fans were allowed into the WNIR to watch the Devils or even if 50% were allowed my opinion is that there would be no Devils to watch, Along with Fife, Dundee, Coventry, Manchester, Glasgow, Giants. Resulting in no league.Every club needs every club to exist.
 
august04 2.0

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
#70
#70
This is not just about the Devils though. There are many other users of IAW, young and old, who are desperate to be allowed to take part again in their chosen sport, whether that’s ice hockey, figure skating, sledge hockey etc. Just as they are in other countries in the UK. Even if public skating wasn’t allowed immediately, there are more than enough clubs using that facility, to make opening it financially viable for the short term anyway. Kids are being denied access to their chosen sporting endeavours, vital to their health and mental well being, for no good reason anymore.
While we’re talking about attendances at hockey matches - by the start of the season, every single adult in Wales will have been offered two vaccine doses. To date, the two main vaccines used in the UK have shown efficacy of 90+ % against the now dominant Delta variant. Why would there be any reason not to have full capacity, if we trust that our vaccines work (and current hospital admissions/deaths suggest that they do)? As Steve King posted in this thread, we’re all responsible for our own level of risk when it comes to what we do in life. For those who don’t want to take that risk, then that’s their choice, as is the case for those that want to get on with our lives. There will be other variants, we can’t keep shutting down every time a new one appears. What sort of life is that? For those who wish to hide away, maybe streaming matches in the comfort of your own home is the answer. Myself, I’ll be cheering on the Devils from inside IAW (if Drakeford eventually allows).
 
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mjh

Well-Known Member
#71
#71
Read through the posts above and some interesting points made. Whatever your stance on the pandemic and government response to it, the key point is the current state of play. We're at a crucial point here. If the rink doesn't open soon and remain open, it's looking pretty grim for the business. I completely support your views on the pandemic etc, it's such a polarising topic and my views may be different in some areas. That being said, I think the next few weeks will be make or break for the next year of hockey or cancellation.
 
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BostonBart22

Well-Known Member
#72
#72
Finny said:
Whilst I can only imagine how frustrating it is for the management to stay closed and for skaters etc to be unable to use the facility, having read some of the comments on here (and the petition) I feel I need to play Devils Advocate with a bit of a reality check.

The UK is currently at the start of the 3rd wave of Covid infections. Cases are rising exponentially and daily new cases are now higher than any other European country (with the exception of Russia). Based on previous waves, we would be preparing for a tightening of restrictions and potentially a 3rd lockdown.

The difference this time is that we are hopefully in a much better position thanks to the vaccine rollout. Especially here in Wales where the speed of the rollout is one of the fastest in the world.
But we do still need to be cautious. It takes around 3 weeks for a rise in infections to have an affect on hospital admissions (and potentially deaths). In England they are starting to see an increase in both, albeit small. In Wales we are yet to see an increase in either, although based on the 3 week timescale this is the week we would expect to see that increase. The next couple of weeks are going to be crucial to what happens over the coming months.

The cause of this rise is the Delta variant. If it hadn't spread into and around the UK we'd be looking at Wales going into Tier 1 today and the Arena being given the go ahead to open. Unfortunately it did and the blame for that must go to the UK government for refusing to put India on the red list until it was too late. If people want to play the political blame game their anger should be aimed at Boris Johnson who put his desire for a jolly to India ahead of what was best for the UK.

If we are going to get the Arena open we are going to need to work with the Welsh Government, not finger pointing and using derogatory names like "Drakeford". This club has had too much history with picking fights with the wrong people for the sake of it - let's not make that mistake again.

Raising the profile of the needs of the Arena and it's users is definitely the way ahead ,but it needs to be done sensibly. For ordinary members of the public an ice rink would not appear to have the same risk as other sports and leisure venues. The basic rules for Covid has been :
Outdoors = Good. Indoors = Bad
Warm = Good. Cold = Bad
So an indoor venue with Ice literally in it's name is going to sound like the worst possible place to open. And despite the loudest voices shouting to "Open Everything Up" polls continue to show overwhelming support for a slow relaxation of rules (and the current pause we have).

Without wanting to cause offence to the person who created it, a poorly worded and factually incorrect petition is probably not the best way forward. A carefully worded statement from the Arena management backed by all the different user groups would IMO be far better. Pointing out the physical and mental health benefits from reopening the Arena and explaining the processes that would be in place to assure people's fears of a cold, indoor building.

Something like this would allow us to contact our local politicians and put forward the argument in a sensible and fact based manner.

In the meantime, we can all play our part by continuing to follow social distancing rules, get tested when needed and get the vaccine when possible.
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Pretty sure Boris cancelled that trip to India, He is still to blame though, he put Bangladesh and Pakistan on the red list for travel to and fro , and for a further 2 weeks he was allowing travel to and fro from India which had a higher rate of cases , deaths, etc, it was a no brainer we were gonna end up with more cases because he said carry on India come and go as you please, this latest wave is all down to him full stop, a complete plank....
 
M

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
#76
#76
Wannabe2 said:
Been in contact with Deeside and the reason they are closed is that it’s being used as a vaccination centre, and is being funded for it.
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Well this adds even more weight to our rink being a unique case which should be manageable with specific measures. This isn't Canada or Sweden with thousands of ice rinks to worry about compliance at. Maybe I'm paranoid, but this starts to feel more personal.
 
NathanG

NathanG

Well-Known Member
#77
#77
The petition has now reached 3k signatures. How much of a difference will it actually make? The WAG aren't exactly going to admit that they're getting something wrong, are they?
 
august04 2.0

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
#78
#78
BostonBart22 said:
Another thing i cant get my head around is casinos and cinemas are open and guess what, aircon circulating this virus.
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You’d like to think that some may have installed filters in their aircon systems, effective against these viruses - similar to those used in aircraft cabins. Going back to the start of this thread and the appearance of aircon companies at IAW, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we haven’t done the same in IAW.
 
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