"Star" players

[Devil_Abroad]

I agree with your sentiment Steve, and most of your post. However, doucet, at time of post, was 2 points from 10 games. No goals. For a player of his calibre, for whatever reason, that isn't good enough. But, There's always a but, it was predicted that once he scored a goal he'd start to fly, and now that prediction is looking odds on. Droughts occur in sport and there's not always a reason, but talent shines through in the end.

They do indeed. He went through a drought last season didn't he? I think he'll be grabbing a few regularly now until Christmas



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Devil_Abroad]

In fairness, there's not been many posts stating that our title hopes are in tatters - although we face a crucial game on Sunday against Coventry to keep our Challenge Cup hopes alive. There's been plenty of criticism about our home form, which has been justified for me, particularly after last Saturday. I don't think it's too much to expect the same level of effort, commitment and performance in front of your own crowd, as the team have put in on the road of late. I'm sorry you had to see the Sheffield home game but in a way, it could be the best thing that happened to this team and the jolt they needed to turn things around at home. I hope so anyway, starting on Saturday. Can't fault the away results, they've been incredible.

Reading the posts after the Saturday game I think quite a few were asking or demanding players be gassed - Steelers like?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Devil_Abroad]

My own sense of our home form has been that it hasn't been from a lack of effort or commitment. I believe it is far more from a desire to do too much in front of the home fans. If you look at the majority of goals that have been scored on us at home, they've been from very poor turnovers where players are trying to put passes through players, circling to go backwards and generally taking too many risks. Our games on the road, we've excelled by keeping things simple. Our talent level will prevail when we keep it simple.

I completely agree that Saturday could end up being a turning point in the season. Those mistakes and that style of play was talked about at length. Too small a sample size but the next two games have been encouraging. Now we see if it really has sunk in and they play the same way at home.

It will be a HUGE test (as Aled would say) on Saturday - putting aside our injuries (hope Louis is back) the Capitals look to be a very useful team this year (like last until they started losing players)

Come on Devils, simple, stay out of the box hockey please

Also, it's raining here in NS tomorrow so Rach might let me tune into Icetimetv at 3pm




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Devil_Abroad]

We've definitely been over complicating things at home, trying to be too clever for our own good at times. Andrew Lord won't get any complaints playing the traditional Devils way. We've always been a blue collar team, no nonsense defence, get the puck in deep and forecheck hard. We started to move away from that last season and it cost us. That can still be done on a bigger ice surface (one of my pet hates is people telling me we can't play that way anymore, which I just don't buy), so I really hope we do keep things simple at home from now on.

When I used to watch in the 90s we played the pretty stuff too - very well.

Not sure where this notion of Devils hockey came from but it must have changed?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[august04]

When I used to watch in the 90s we played the pretty stuff too - very well.

Not sure where this notion of Devils hockey came from but it must have changed?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not sure if you've misinterpreted my post but yes, we've played good hockey for most of our 30 year existence, especially in the first 15-20 years! Good players do and we've had plenty of those. When you watched in the 90’s (and beyond) you must have seen that the Devils were always a hard working, hard nosed team who played a physical game. That's what I mean by blue collar in a hockey sense. No nonsense defence, get the puck in deep and forechecking hard doesn't mean just 'dump and chase', that's certainly not what I meant to express anyway. Of course we had good players back then and good players will always shine through (they are starting to now also, again by playing a simple game and not just the pretty stuff). Back to the 90's, John Lawless was never a highly technical coach and certainly never had a tendency to over complicate things. He was the ultimate man manager though, and empowered players to get on with it and get out there and express themselves, which they did most weeks. And most would have run through a brick wall for him, from experienced pros to the local Cardiff lads. The team in their trophy winning heyday combined their undoubted talent, with this blue collar, hard working, physical game and a team ethic that was second to none. For me, that's always been the Devils way. I'm surprised you disagree. I think we've finally started to see that from this team, certainly in the most recent away games anyway. I hope that continues at home, starting this weekend.

 

[august04]

Reading the posts after the Saturday game I think quite a few were asking or demanding players be gassed - Steelers like?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Plenty of criticism yes, much of it justified. I couldn't care less whether that's Steelers like. If players are not playing well, they'll always be under an element of pressure. As hockey fans, I don't think we're any different to any other club. And by the way, I loathe the Steelers but their record of winning titles is absolutely phenomenal.

 

[Devil_Abroad]

I'm not sure if you've misinterpreted my post but yes, we've played good hockey for most of our 30 year existence, especially in the first 15-20 years! Good players do and we've had plenty of those. When you watched in the 90’s (and beyond) you must have seen that the Devils were always a hard working, hard nosed team who played a physical game. That's what I mean by blue collar in a hockey sense. No nonsense defence, get the puck in deep and forechecking hard doesn't mean just 'dump and chase', that's certainly not what I meant to express anyway. Of course we had good players back then and good players will always shine through (they are starting to now also, again by playing a simple game and not just the pretty stuff). Back to the 90's, John Lawless was never a highly technical coach and certainly never had a tendency to over complicate things. He was the ultimate man manager though, and empowered players to get on with it and get out there and express themselves, which they did most weeks. And most would have run through a brick wall for him, from experienced pros to the local Cardiff lads. The team in their trophy winning heyday combined their undoubted talent, with this blue collar, hard working, physical game and a team ethic that was second to none. For me, that's always been the Devils way. I'm surprised you disagree. I think we've finally started to see that from this team, certainly in the most recent away games anyway. I hope that continues at home, starting this weekend.

Thanks for the response - very detailed and great points. Also, can't argue much with it!

I would make a couple of points. The game now is totally different to what it was then. At that time if you bought the quality British players then you'd probably walk the league and so wouldn't have to play the 'tough' brand of hockey very often - of course there were fights - but because the team was full of talent compared to other teams and as you say hard working they didn't have to play tough brand hockey. Of course this changed a bit through the mid 90s.

Lawless also liked the 'stay out of the box' 'you don't win games sitting in the penalty box'

It was also difficult to check hard into the netting




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Devil_Abroad]

Plenty of criticism yes, much of it justified. I couldn't care less whether that's Steelers like. If players are not playing well, they'll always be under an element of pressure. As hockey fans, I don't think we're any different to any other club. And by the way, I loathe the Steelers but their record of winning titles is absolutely phenomenal.

Criticism is good most of the time; whether it is constructive which is of course the more productive, or negative as that can develop into a discussion which then becomes constructive.

What I find difficult to justify is the calls for gassing players when we're only 6 or so weeks into the season and we're joint top of the league; granted we're struggling to qualify in the cup but that's still in our hands in the next 2 games.

We dominate large parts of the games.

We create quality chances in all the games.

I agree we cough up pucks in the wrong places and lately we're being punished for them.

I agree our D jump in and sometimes aren't covered by a forward or they choose the wrong play to do so.

I agree we don't shoot enough and seem to try for the 'pretty' goals too often.

I agree that we don't occupy the space in front of the opponent netminder often enough.

When I sat and watched us dominate possession in Nottingham a few weeks back and lose it was frustrating seeing the team play so well and not come away with the win - they didn't shoot enough, they didn't put guys in front of the netminder, they were kept to the outside all night.

Watching the highlights against Steelers (I can't comment on the whole game as I didn't see it) we seemed to have as many if not more quality chances as them - either shooting wide - or the post - or at the netminder - yet the result on here was doom and gloom - gas the players etc

We did make a few mistakes but you'll never see a 'perfect' game - players will make mistakes - sometimes they will cost a goal - sometimes a game. But the reaction to gas players? Time to make the necessary changes?

We then go up there the following night - play a great road game - and everything is rosy again. Are we still calling for players to be gassed?

I do like to see the comments on here after a game - and that includes the criticisms - because you get a gist of how different fans see plays - incidents - and you get a feel for how the team played. However, I do feel sometimes the reactions are over the top.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jimmy snels]

Im one who thinks there are more than a few doubts about a couple of players. It might be against the grain for some but its a forum to express your views. Some might think that the players and coach are never wrong and as in past seasons there will be those who are not of the same opinion. After watching us at home this season and not away (only online occasionally) i would agree it seems we play better away. But i paid 400 quid to watch it live in cardiff so if im not impressed i fear no shame in expressing my displeasure.

 

[Milky]

Im one who thinks there are more than a few doubts about a couple of players. It might be against the grain for some but its a forum to express your views. Some might think that the players and coach are never wrong and as in past seasons there will be those who are not of the same opinion. After watching us at home this season and not away (only online occasionally) i would agree it seems we play better away. But i paid 400 quid to watch it live in cardiff so if im not impressed i fear no shame in expressing my displeasure.

Express away Jimmy, you're right that's what a forum is about. We all love having a bit of banter about the club we all love

Personally though i'm with Devil_Abroad. It's no surprise so many of my friends stay away from the Inferno these days (and to be fair I find it hard work a lot of the time) because of the over-reaction on here (bad and good). It seems unless we win convincingly every game some people are just not happy.

I'm certainly not an apologist or yes man for the coaching or management but calls for people to be gassed are ridiculous. As quite frankly was this original post. This isn't NHL17 on the playstation and comparing stats a few games into the season means nothing (look at Dourest over the last three games in comparison). In any sport players don't score goals/points consistently every game all the time. For example, In cricket if a batsman's average is 50, does it mean he should score 50 in every game? It's called an average for a reason.

Likewise you can't expect players to play their best every game, it's physically impossible (otherwise it's just their average).

Same goes for points in hockey. Doucet is a prime example. I've watched every home game and 4 away games live this season plus all away streams. His effort, commitment, energy, attitude, positioning has been brilliant. He just couldn't buy a goal. He's hit the pipes a few times for what could have been goal of the season contenders and I'm sure nobody was more concerned about his lack of production than him. Now he's got that monkey off his back I expect him to go on a roll.

For me, if players are giving 100% effort, have the right attitude and are in the right places on the ice then I'll trust the coaches to get it right.

Am I disappointed when we lose and play badly? Damn right I am

BUT....... are we suddenly the best team in the world ever if we beat Sheffield in their dump the very next game? errrrrrr, no

It seems on here people are too quick to be ultra down when we lose and vice versa when we put in a good performance. I think somewhere in the middle is about right.

Having said that, I do agree 100% that the coming out in the first period flat (especially at home) is frustrating as hell. In comparison the first periods in the last games away at Sheffield and Dundee were brilliant.

We do seem to play better away at the moment. And yes we seem to play a simpler game from the back away from home than we do at IAW. We seem to have a lot less cheap turnovers away from home.

I think maybe the players are trying too hard and feeling the pressure at home. With the amazing intro we now have (that video sends shivers down my spine every time) and the sold out crowd the atmosphere has been electric.

At the moment I'm loving being a Devil's fan and long may it continue.

 

[youngbob]

Well I certainly stirred up things more than I expected, and a couple of things were obviously badly worded
"Star" players probably wasn't a good title, and "pipe dream" over the top, though if we don't do better in challenge cup we still risk crashing out
Which a win on Sunday would reverse
One thing I don't see in my original post was any suggestion of gassing players, my last but one paragraph was a mix of comments I've heard or seen from others

No-one will be happier than me to be proved wrong

 

[Electro]

As I've stated before, in my opinion it's the coaching that is the issue, so much the players. I see nothing wrong with the current situation, I'm enjoying the uncertainty. I have no great expectations in this current situation as of now, l don't believe we will win anything. Will that change, am l wrong, l hope so, but if l was to put on a bet, no I'd place it elsewhere. Does that mean gassing players or the coach, well that depends on others expectations of the team. I don't really care. I'm not the type of person who would turn up to a drag race in a standard car in the hope the turbocharged racer breaks down or fluffs a gear, it could happen, lesser teams in sport have beating the odds, just as much as top teams have failed. Lord for me has potential, but needs help if the expectation is high. As we've been told the league is more professional, more competitive. Simply turning up with good players is not enough, when others have more in their organisation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[fridaysfingers]

As I've stated before, in my opinion it's the coaching that is the issue, so much the players. I see nothing wrong with the current situation, I'm enjoying the uncertainty. I have no great expectations in this current situation as of now, l don't believe we will win anything. Will that change, am l wrong, l hope so, but if l was to put on a bet, no I'd place it elsewhere. Does that mean gassing players or the coach, well that depends on others expectations of the team. I don't really care. I'm not the type of person who would turn up to a drag race in a standard car in the hope the turbocharged racer breaks down or fluffs a gear, it could happen, lesser teams in sport have beating the odds, just as much as top teams have failed. Lord for me has potential, but needs help if the expectation is high. As we've been told the league is more professional, more competitive. Simply turning up with good players is not enough, when others have more in their organisation.


I tend to agree with you regarding the need for an assistant coach if Lord is likely to play regularly.
I also get that you don't rate Andrew Lord as a coach (maybe it's as player/coach??)
My hockey knowledge means i don't know the answer to this question but you seem to always say we have been "out-coached" when we get beat. Does this mean that Lord has out-coached the opposition coach (and his assistant) in games we win??



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[fridaysfingers]

As I've stated before, in my opinion it's the coaching that is the issue, so much the players. I see nothing wrong with the current situation, I'm enjoying the uncertainty. I have no great expectations in this current situation as of now, l don't believe we will win anything. Will that change, am l wrong, l hope so, but if l was to put on a bet, no I'd place it elsewhere. Does that mean gassing players or the coach, well that depends on others expectations of the team. I don't really care. I'm not the type of person who would turn up to a drag race in a standard car in the hope the turbocharged racer breaks down or fluffs a gear, it could happen, lesser teams in sport have beating the odds, just as much as top teams have failed. Lord for me has potential, but needs help if the expectation is high. As we've been told the league is more professional, more competitive. Simply turning up with good players is not enough, when others have more in their organisation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I tend to agree with you regarding the need for an assistant coach if Lord is likely to play regularly.
I also get that you don't rate Andrew Lord as a coach (maybe it's as player/coach??)
My hockey knowledge means i don't know the answer to this question but you seem to always say we have been "out-coached" when we get beat. Does this mean that Lord has out-coached the opposition coach (and his assistant) in games we win??

 

[Ocko]

At the moment we are as good as anyone, which isnt a bad place to be. Hate to quote Simmsey but he is right when he always says 'dont get too high with the highs and too low with the lows' (I think Matsos said it a lot). But it's true; we wax lyrical about this team when we win and then we the polar opposite when we lose. It's like a fanbase of hormonal teenage girls at times.

I dont profess to be a scholar of the sport but you can almost always guarantee that posters will narrow it down to: dont hit enough and not physical enough, dont shoot enough, dont shoot enough on the powerplay, dont screen the goalie, defencemen jumping into the play - fans of every team say exactly the same thing; if only the game was that simple. The game is about small details which are lost on myself and just about every other fan. Everyone seems to think it's easy fixes. Most fans seem to think we should shoot a lot on the powerplay; every coach will tell you otherwise, you shoot less then than any other time.

We have no right to win every game. No one will walk this league, it'll be between 3 teams come the end of the season in my opinion and if we are in the mix then great. We will lose plenty more games before the end of the season - at home too. As will everyone else. For some reason we just seem to think we have a right to win every game all of a sudden, and it's the end of the world if we dont and the pitchforks come out for players. But most people have no idea why player X hasnt scored X amount of goals. Has the coached changed his role? Do we even know his role in the first place? Is he carrying a knock? So many uneducated opinions that make us seem like spoilt brats without a clue.

And for questioning the coaching? At the moment we are joint top - therefore he is doing his job. When we arent in the mix then question it. But if we are at the top, playing decent hockey, then what could we possibly criticize? Electro has said coaching is the issue; but what part is? Specifically what has he been doing wrong? It's a broad sweeping statement with little substance.

 

[KaneDevils]

As has been said before, it's not losing that's the issue, more about the performance. of course you sometimes win when not at your best, nobody cares then though. If every player gives his all, and we're disciplined but unfortunate, and lose then fair enough. It will happen. It's when players go missing, lines are constantly altered, poor turnovers, players getting caught out of position, and you lose, then fans will vent their frustrations. And rightfully so. Some may go overboard, but that's just showing passion and a will to win. I personally find it more annoying when some say, " oh well, there's always next week".

Some players have been disappointing, scoring wise or performance wise, maybe even both. Lord has also changed the lines many times, sometimes too early doors. When you win, he looks a genius but when it backfires, the criticism will follow. It's just and is the nature of the beast.

If we're going to lose, let's go down fighting then not many will have much to complain about. And yes, maybe lord should sometimes have a different plan B rather than just change the lines at will after 5, 10 minutes.

Fans will always be vocal, good or bad, take that away and it simply wouldn't be the same.

 

[Electro]

[QUOTE="Ocko]

And for questioning the coaching? At the moment we are joint top - therefore he is doing his job. When we arent in the mix then question it. But if we are at the top, playing decent hockey, then what could we possibly criticize? Electro has said coaching is the issue; but what part is? Specifically what has he been doing wrong? It's a broad sweeping statement with little substance.[/QUOTE]

In my opinion previous teams under Lord had more potential than the end results would suggest. My opinion, I'm not going to argue the point.

The home game in front of the owners, was that a game bigger than say the challenge cup or play off finals. Was that and previous home losses down to the stress of playing at home, I certainly hope not, we have chosen profession players, who have faced stress in their careers. So in my opinion l concluded that is not a factor, of course l can be wrong, if l am, then that is a fault of who picked the players, l feel that is leading towards the coach. I concluded the loss, was not normal for a team of the quality we have, so, as in any organisation that manages staff and suffers a shift in performance and expectation, you look within, it's usual to find the weakest member. In my opinion Lord is that person, again l could be completely incorrect. I'm analysing based on watching the team and its performance, nothing more, l feel l need to point that out. I'd like to write that l get some members opinions of the club, but l don't.

As for what Lord can do to improve, I've no idea, I've no idea of many roles people within my organisation do, that's why there there. That does not mean l cannot identify there performance. I would also not place anybody within a role and expect them to perform beyond their capabilities, experience.

Don't get too high with the highs and too low with the lows, yes l agree, l would also add "leave the emotions at the venue".




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Devil_Abroad]

[QUOTE="Ocko]

And for questioning the coaching? At the moment we are joint top - therefore he is doing his job. When we arent in the mix then question it. But if we are at the top, playing decent hockey, then what could we possibly criticize? Electro has said coaching is the issue; but what part is? Specifically what has he been doing wrong? It's a broad sweeping statement with little substance.

In my opinion previous teams under Lord had more potential than the end results would suggest. My opinion, I'm not going to argue the point.

The home game in front of the owners, was that a game bigger than say the challenge cup or play off finals. Was that and previous home losses down to the stress of playing at home, I certainly hope not, we have chosen profession players, who have faced stress in their careers. So in my opinion l concluded that is not a factor, of course l can be wrong, if l am, then that is a fault of who picked the players, l feel that is leading towards the coach. I concluded the loss, was not normal for a team of the quality we have, so, as in any organisation that manages staff and suffers a shift in performance and expectation, you look within, it's usual to find the weakest member. In my opinion Lord is that person, again l could be completely incorrect. I'm analysing based on watching the team and its performance, nothing more, l feel l need to point that out. I'd like to write that l get some members opinions of the club, but l don't.

As for what Lord can do to improve, I've no idea, I've no idea of many roles people within my organisation do, that's why there there. That does not mean l cannot identify there performance. I would also not place anybody within a role and expect them to perform beyond their capabilities, experience.

Don't get too high with the highs and too low with the lows, yes l agree, l would also add "leave the emotions at the venue".




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

So you don't mind the current situation and you like the uncertainty? But you don't think we will win anything? So you're not a fan of the Devils then? I've yet to meet a fan of any team in any sport who doesn't want to win something.

Also, if you don't know a person's role within your organisation how can you then possibly assess their performance? You're going on what others' assessment is of that person which means reliance on their performance in their role assessing the other person?

I really do find it difficult trying to make sense of much of what you say. I'm sure it isn't your intention to confuse me and I'm sorry for that but when I read your posts having hopefully navigated through your grammar I see opposite arguments most of the time in the same post.

I think you believe having Lord as coach is fine even though he's not up to the role because you don't particularly care if we don't win anything.

Is that correct?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Wannabe2]

It's all getting too deep for me, just enjoy the game, we are top of the league at this moment in time, life is about enjoyment, if you ain't enjoying it maybe it's time to move on, if you are then good on you. Sport is a roller coaster thing, one minute you are up, the next it's hari kari time. I enjoyed tonight's game, how lush is it to see our new gaff full to the rafters.God compared to football we are the lucky ones.

 

[E.D.S.]

Isn't the intro the same length though? The bit before about the history is just for the fans and crowd to stir some emotion but the actual intro length is the same. The players don't wait any longer or do they? My impression was the intro, whilst being new, was just an updated more effective version of the old one with a nice bolt on of the history. Love it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk