Team Toughness and Skillset

[CaldicotDevil]

My concern with "team toughness", as I've said before is that I've never seen it executed in Cardiff. Certainly not in the modern era. What worries me is what I saw last year, Martin, Sanford and Cox getting stuck into needless exchanges. They shouldn't be getting involved but ultimately they had to - either because they were getting man handled and roughed up or it was down to sheer frustration of chasing shadows and defending for 95% of their shift. Added to that you had Crawford taking petulant penalties for slashing or roughing that amounted to nothing other than to put us short handed. It wasn't sending a message or sticking up for anyone, it was petulance. I don't really want to see that.
I'm all for Brandt. I love the guy but one guy throwing hits and willing to drop the gloves that is a shade over 5ft 7" isn't team toughness either.
Fournier could barely skate and wasn't the answer, neither is a full on knuckle dragger but there's definitely a middle ground to be found. Bottom line.... I don't want to see Sanford, Martin and Cox sat in the penalty box. That seemed to happen far too often in big games (I might have imagined it but that's what it felt like). I want someone to tell Conway (if he was still here) that he's in for one hell of a day every time he steps on the ice and if he doesn't hurt him with a check then he'll no choice him and batter him should he go near our first line stars. Also, if our 6ft 4" Brit defender gets smashed in to the boards at home by a Flame then someone has more than a word. Too much too ask for? I don't see that happening with "team toughness".

Didn't we have one of, if not the most fights, last year? That still didn't feel like team toughness to me. We still got bullied and smashed around the ice, at times.

Disagree about Fournier. I think he’s exactly what we need as a 3rd line winger. He only played 13 for us and roughly had 0.6 PPG. It’s comparable with Faryna in a Devils shirt.

I remember when we played the Giant in January. They didn’t have an answer for him and we won comfortably 4-1.

I know Fournier was an loose cannon (entertaining one at that) and that’s why’s he’s had so many clubs, However when Fournier did ice, he installed so much confidence in our team to play and play with an edge.

If it was my team and not PRs. I would’ve released Batch and re-signed Big Lou. Then your toughness is sorted.

 

[Celticdruid]

There's probably no such thing as a mike mcWilliam player these days, but an Ian McIntyre would be awesome.

Sadly not but that would be a great shout to be honest. Fantastic player and balls of steel when it came to it.

 

[Mooney#16]

Nothing against Lou here but you’ve argued against you own point there. Lou was here for every other game Fournier wasn’t and the problem existed so he definition Lou is not the answer and could answer why he isn’t back. Lou is as tough as they come but was too much of a gent. He wasn’t an intimidating player but a tough player. Fournier was a fruit loop who sowed seeds of doubt in the opposition as he was pro active in getting involved with the opposition mentally. Brandt again is a tough player but is also a bit nice and plays by the code. The reality is what Devils need is Brandt and Duggan to run around like absolute pests and piss the opposition of so they draw attention and distract while the other lines pick them off.

 

[Celticdruid]

Out of interest, for those saying teams still need a tough guy or two, who are you classing as the tough guys on Belfast’s team last year?

Not so much an out and out tough guy but a very skillful player who wasn't easily intimidated and dropped the gloves when needed against the toughest was Ben Lake believe it or not.

 

[Celticdruid]

My concern with "team toughness", as I've said before is that I've never seen it executed in Cardiff. Certainly not in the modern era. What worries me is what I saw last year, Martin, Sanford and Cox getting stuck into needless exchanges. They shouldn't be getting involved but ultimately they had to - either because they were getting man handled and roughed up or it was down to sheer frustration of chasing shadows and defending for 95% of their shift. Added to that you had Crawford taking petulant penalties for slashing or roughing that amounted to nothing other than to put us short handed. It wasn't sending a message or sticking up for anyone, it was petulance. I don't really want to see that.
I'm all for Brandt. I love the guy but one guy throwing hits and willing to drop the gloves that is a shade over 5ft 7" isn't team toughness either.
Fournier could barely skate and wasn't the answer, neither is a full on knuckle dragger but there's definitely a middle ground to be found. Bottom line.... I don't want to see Sanford, Martin and Cox sat in the penalty box. That seemed to happen far too often in big games (I might have imagined it but that's what it felt like). I want someone to tell Conway (if he was still here) that he's in for one hell of a day every time he steps on the ice and if he doesn't hurt him with a check then he'll no choice him and batter him should he go near our first line stars. Also, if our 6ft 4" Brit defender gets smashed in to the boards at home by a Flame then someone has more than a word. Too much too ask for? I don't see that happening with "team toughness".

Didn't we have one of, if not the most fights, last year? That still didn't feel like team toughness to me. We still got bullied and smashed around the ice, at times.

Very solid argument right there. As for Crawford I agree that some of the moments were petulance but I would also add that I think some were pure frustration that nothing was being handled and lots of cheap shits were going unpunished.

 

[Celticdruid]

The goon days are over, now it’s less glove dropping and more physical hitting & cheap shots, particularly when it is affecting the oppositions plays. You need to have the option of a Brandt type, just needs to be bigger.

Or someone on the ice that is more likely to deter the cheap shots, police the game and strike fear enough in the opposition that a cheap shot won't go unpunished. Historically that has always worked and has won championships and cups. When players know they have time, space and freedom on the ice because another player ensures they do then it is almost like having a break away on net.

 

[Rempel16]

Is it possible to get a clone of Ian McIntyre for our 3rd line winger spot? Please and thanks.

 

[Celticdruid]

Is it possible to get a clone of Ian McIntyre for our 3rd line winger spot? Please and thanks.

I second, third and 4th that. PLEASE!! https://media.tenor.com/CwPYjyVdmvEAAAAM/snl-saturday-night-live.gif

 

[BostonBart22]

From some of the interviews I’m expecting the tougher version of Batch this year

I think batch has been told to step up to big lou role as part of his signing, then if he don't oblige he may be replaced with someone who can do the job..the worst play in the game at mo is running our keeper, not once last season and maybe previous seasons has a devils player stepped in and made that player accountable, ok big lou may have said to the offender don't do that again, time to stop being nimby pamby, as soon as our keeper gets ruined, someone gotta no choice that player , end of..

 

[Wannabe2]

Is it possible to get a clone of Ian McIntyre for our 3rd line winger spot? Please and thanks.

God what I would give for an Ian McIntyre clone, what a devil he was.

 

[Devils86]

So we are looking for a taller, less idiotic McNally. Can play, willing to drop them, but just not a complete tool. (Based on the flying rugby challenge in one of his first games, losing his cool too easily especially at Dundee, and finally opting to sign for th Orange!)

 

[BostonBart22]

Disagree about Fournier. I think he’s exactly what we need as a 3rd line winger. He only played 13 for us and roughly had 0.6 PPG. It’s comparable with Faryna in a Devils shirt.

I remember when we played the Giant in January. They didn’t have an answer for him and we won comfortably 4-1.

I know Fournier was an loose cannon (entertaining one at that) and that’s why’s he’s had so many clubs, However when Fournier did ice, he installed so much confidence in our team to play and play with an edge.

If it was my team and not PRs. I would’ve released Batch and re-signed Big Lou. Then your toughness is sorted.

Only 1 answer there, batch was prob on half the wage to lou..

 

[BostonBart22]

Not so much an out and out tough guy but a very skillful player who wasn't easily intimidated and dropped the gloves when needed against the toughest was Ben Lake believe it or not.

Agree they had a few that could step up but were not needed as other teams were bullied with no reaction especially v devils home and away, would love to see a tone set between devils v belfast pre season to set that marker we are not getting bullied next season especially in our barn

 

[Ejercito Rojas]

For me, team tough only works if you have team togetherness, it only works if everyone is buying into the same winning ethos.
This is from believing in the systems installed by the coach and playing with heart and desire.
Unfortunately, that was not the case last year and we started to take many petulant, selfish retaliation penalties borne out of frustration.

This season we have a different coach, a different approach and many different players to step up as a team and offer a real deterrent. But as someone said earlier the biggest deterrent to teams getting chippy is a great PP and if we have to take a penalty for sending someone a message we need a great PK!
It’s no coincidence that when we won league titles we had the best PP and the best PK.
Team tough can work but you need these other elements to make it a deterrent.

 

[moggy#9]

For me, team tough only works if you have team togetherness, it only works if everyone is buying into the same winning ethos.
This is from believing in the systems installed by the coach and playing with heart and desire.
Unfortunately, that was not the case last year and we started to take many petulant, selfish retaliation penalties borne out of frustration.

This season we have a different coach, a different approach and many different players to step up as a team and offer a real deterrent. But as someone said earlier the biggest deterrent to teams getting chippy is a great PP and if we have to take a penalty for sending someone a message we need a great PK!
It’s no coincidence that when we won league titles we had the best PP and the best PK.
Team tough can work but you need these other elements to make it a deterrent.

One thing I'm confident of this season is is having well drilled special teams. I was always astonished at how clueless last year's coaching staff were in getting such a fundamental thing right, but how many off our players couldn't pass accurately nor recieve a pass effectively, with the correct body position. But I digress...

Whilst in principal we should be able to rely on the officials to catch everything, that's no humanly possible. Some toughness is required to deal with, erm, "other issues". ;-)

 

[Finny]

Agree they had a few that could step up but were not needed as other teams were bullied with no reaction especially v devils home and away, would love to see a tone set between devils v belfast pre season to set that marker we are not getting bullied next season especially in our barn

Who were the few who could step up?

 

[Rempel16]

Who were the few who could step up?

Ruopp, Mark Cooper, Long, Lake.

They didn't need it as they showed how team toughness worked. It felt like they bullied us in Cardiff on a couple of occasions, the exception being the home game where Fournier put the fear back into them. It worked.

 

[Ocko]

I’d love a tough guy, but for entertainment.

The whole protection thing is gone now; it’s a different generation of player. Even the tough guys recently (Louis, Batch) as tough as they may be, are too nice. The nasty players who play outside of the rules are weeded out now long before pro hockey.

No tough guy is going to put off the pests of the game anymore; the instigator put that to bed. It’s a myth that having a word with someone like the Connolly’s of the game stops anything they do. Louis never stopped that or any tough guy for a number of years. I’d probably say the last time we seen old school plays to stop that kind of stuff was the 14/15 season.

There is also less of a need as people think. Someone mentioned a big hit on Batch and how nothing was done; I mean it might knock the wind out of you on the odd occasion but hits in hockey rarely hurt that much. The hit that Batch took he probably laughed off, fans go crazy for them but if you’ve played you know it’s nothing.

 

[lloyd_jeff]

Arn’t the pests and the Connolly‘s the new tough guys, so to prevent the Connolly‘s and the pests you ram a large skilled body firmly & legally into them at every opportunity, like Batch received. Maybe i‘m being simplistic but those guys are in teams & will continue in the future, so will the need to deal with them, the only difference now is penalty avoidance, your examples just seem to defend the Devils for not choosing one, even when the owners continue to support the tough entertainment side to the game verbally. Think most fans prefer that form of entertainment than the purest‘s skilled sterile version.

 

[BostonBart22]

Ruopp, Mark Cooper, Long, Lake.

They didn't need it as they showed how team toughness worked. It felt like they bullied us in Cardiff on a couple of occasions, the exception being the home game where Fournier put the fear back into them. It worked.

Sure Conway had a tilt at some point if not last season , the season before.