while I do agree with you to a certain extent, dropping one import is hardly going to make a difference. I think gradually the import level should be brought to around 8 but that could take 15 years but thats fine with me, if you rush dropping the import limit then what you have said above will happen. If you look at the DEL they have been gradually dropping the import level and I think next year it will be down to 8/9 imports, the hockey is hardly imploding over there
10 imports next season
- Thread starter wildthing74
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More of a comment on the tone of your post rather than you. You may be the most open person, ready to have a debate and have your mind changed, and change minds.
Exactly.
See, this is the crux of the matter. The best quality product may be lower - than what teams are fielding. We know that Steelers have to make changes. But those changes can either be a team full of lower quality imports, or a team mixed with high quality imports mixed with young hungry Brits.
See, this is where I am - I really don't see how reducing the import limit necessarily leads to a reduction in quality. It has to be managed correctly, but it does not have to lead to a worse team.
Are we saying the likes of Mark Richardson, Weaver, Jona Philips, Tait, Clarke, Matt Myers, Meyers, Sam Smith and all the others I haven't mentioned are poor choices over some of the imports we've seen in this league (Penner, Campbell et al).
The thing is, there are a good core of Brits who are as good as imports. There will be more willing to make the step up. Look at the impact Sam Smith had this season - why is he unique?
Also - Symmo. I think many people would agree he has stepped up in the later part of the season. Why? He was given a chance to play, and a chance to train with really top players like Weller, Matzka and Pelle.
Cutting imports will reduce the filler, not the killer. That gives Brits a chance to play with better quality players - and get better. Better Brits will breed better Brits - as they become the top players.
This season, we would cut 1 import. Pull a young Brit in (like Burrows et al). A season, maybe two, and look at the quality of the Brits. Make another cut - develop the Brits. No need for a huge (maybe not any) drop in quality - but better Brits.
Personally, I dream of a time where Brits are good enough that they can earn their spot without an import limit. That day is years away - but we should strive.
Exactly.
See, this is the crux of the matter. The best quality product may be lower - than what teams are fielding. We know that Steelers have to make changes. But those changes can either be a team full of lower quality imports, or a team mixed with high quality imports mixed with young hungry Brits.
See, this is where I am - I really don't see how reducing the import limit necessarily leads to a reduction in quality. It has to be managed correctly, but it does not have to lead to a worse team.
Are we saying the likes of Mark Richardson, Weaver, Jona Philips, Tait, Clarke, Matt Myers, Meyers, Sam Smith and all the others I haven't mentioned are poor choices over some of the imports we've seen in this league (Penner, Campbell et al).
The thing is, there are a good core of Brits who are as good as imports. There will be more willing to make the step up. Look at the impact Sam Smith had this season - why is he unique?
Also - Symmo. I think many people would agree he has stepped up in the later part of the season. Why? He was given a chance to play, and a chance to train with really top players like Weller, Matzka and Pelle.
Cutting imports will reduce the filler, not the killer. That gives Brits a chance to play with better quality players - and get better. Better Brits will breed better Brits - as they become the top players.
This season, we would cut 1 import. Pull a young Brit in (like Burrows et al). A season, maybe two, and look at the quality of the Brits. Make another cut - develop the Brits. No need for a huge (maybe not any) drop in quality - but better Brits.
Personally, I dream of a time where Brits are good enough that they can earn their spot without an import limit. That day is years away - but we should strive.
For me some people are missing part of the argument. Maybe quality will drop in the short term with less imports but as has been mentioned if this is managed correctly it shouldn't be a huge drop and should only temporary.
The part of the argument some people are missing is the number of sustainable teams. An 8 team league with 10 imports (and even 2/3 of the teams not fully sustainable) is IMO of less interest to a 10, 12 or 14 team league with a lower import level. I love it when we play the steelers, panthers and blaze but if we are playing them every other week it dilutes the interest and the importance of each game and I believe will have subsequent impact on crowds. We need more teams and we need a way of helping them to be sustainable. IMO the way to do this is to reduce the import levels and bring more young brits through. The other thing to bear in mind is that although in the short term the top level brits may demand salaries in line with top imports there is still a significant saving to be had in respect of accomodation, registeration, flights and car costs over an import.
The part of the argument some people are missing is the number of sustainable teams. An 8 team league with 10 imports (and even 2/3 of the teams not fully sustainable) is IMO of less interest to a 10, 12 or 14 team league with a lower import level. I love it when we play the steelers, panthers and blaze but if we are playing them every other week it dilutes the interest and the importance of each game and I believe will have subsequent impact on crowds. We need more teams and we need a way of helping them to be sustainable. IMO the way to do this is to reduce the import levels and bring more young brits through. The other thing to bear in mind is that although in the short term the top level brits may demand salaries in line with top imports there is still a significant saving to be had in respect of accomodation, registeration, flights and car costs over an import.
Agree 100%.
If you offered me for the next 5 years an 8 team league with 12 imports or a 12 team league with 8 imports I think I'd choose the 12 team option.
There have been quite a few rumours lately that the league are looking to expand the number of teams and that to do that they would need to lower the import limit. There is one man who wants an 8 team league and no more - but that man is Dave Simms so we can pretty quickly agree that's a stupid idea.
As we have seen in the past - in an 8 team league it only takes one team to have financial problems and then whole league is at risk. We need to get to a stage where the top EPL teams are able to step up and join the EIHL. My method would be to create an EIHL2 with 6 to 8 imports so it's not a massive jump.
If you offered me for the next 5 years an 8 team league with 12 imports or a 12 team league with 8 imports I think I'd choose the 12 team option.
There have been quite a few rumours lately that the league are looking to expand the number of teams and that to do that they would need to lower the import limit. There is one man who wants an 8 team league and no more - but that man is Dave Simms so we can pretty quickly agree that's a stupid idea.
As we have seen in the past - in an 8 team league it only takes one team to have financial problems and then whole league is at risk. We need to get to a stage where the top EPL teams are able to step up and join the EIHL. My method would be to create an EIHL2 with 6 to 8 imports so it's not a massive jump.
I cant see how you come to that conclusion, if you are expanding the league why would you drop import limits ? there are hardly enough brits to go around as it is, so you fill the extra spaces with bench warmers and your top xyz imports play ridculous ammounts of ice time and get injured.
How the reduction is meant to help the weaker teams i dont know ? the top 5/6 will pick up /sign all the best brits the bottom teams will pick up the peices. The only saving you get with a brit is if he's local, if not they can still be as expensive as an import. The Caps and newcastle probblems were nothing to do with imnport limits rather lack of support which no ammount of money will change.
Im not happy with the drop in import limits and any further drops would imo be the end
as for the DEL:
Nod to DWD:
Difference being the standard still surpasses the UK leagues due to the level of coaching.
9 import DEL is far and away greater than a 10 import EIHL.
thus the only way to improve on ice standards in the UK is to increase the import limit.. as oppose to in germany where the style and standard may take a dip in the eyes of the locals, but still remain entertaining to the interlopers
How the reduction is meant to help the weaker teams i dont know ? the top 5/6 will pick up /sign all the best brits the bottom teams will pick up the peices. The only saving you get with a brit is if he's local, if not they can still be as expensive as an import. The Caps and newcastle probblems were nothing to do with imnport limits rather lack of support which no ammount of money will change.
Im not happy with the drop in import limits and any further drops would imo be the end
as for the DEL:
Nod to DWD:
Difference being the standard still surpasses the UK leagues due to the level of coaching.
9 import DEL is far and away greater than a 10 import EIHL.
thus the only way to improve on ice standards in the UK is to increase the import limit.. as oppose to in germany where the style and standard may take a dip in the eyes of the locals, but still remain entertaining to the interlopers
They're not expanding this year, but looking to expand in future seasons with EPL clubs likely to step up.
Increasing the import limit last year was a good idea because Braehead were a completely new team and Dundee were effectively new at a professional level.
If teams like Manchester and Guildford were to step up, going from 4/5 imports to 11/12 would be a big jump. However, stepping up to say 8 imports wouldn't be so bad - plus they already have a couple of EIHL quality brits on their team.
Increasing the import limit last year was a good idea because Braehead were a completely new team and Dundee were effectively new at a professional level.
If teams like Manchester and Guildford were to step up, going from 4/5 imports to 11/12 would be a big jump. However, stepping up to say 8 imports wouldn't be so bad - plus they already have a couple of EIHL quality brits on their team.
Manchester Have stepped up and gone down it is well documented that they cant afford to survive at EIHL level,and are happy to stay in the EPL the same with Guilford they are happy where they are have a good fan base why change ?
I personally dont think the Vipers will ice a team next season, so there will be extra brits about, not sure about the caps, even so if both teams do manage to stay afloat by the time they start building all the top end brits will be snapped up by other teams.
As i said before its a "limit" not a "you must have" same with wages (lol)
So in theory you could have a full team of brits and no imports, however i would suggest your wage bill would be quite amusing.
I personally dont think the Vipers will ice a team next season, so there will be extra brits about, not sure about the caps, even so if both teams do manage to stay afloat by the time they start building all the top end brits will be snapped up by other teams.
As i said before its a "limit" not a "you must have" same with wages (lol)
So in theory you could have a full team of brits and no imports, however i would suggest your wage bill would be quite amusing.
I cant see how you come to that conclusion, if you are expanding the league why would you drop import limits ? there are hardly enough brits to go around as it is, so you fill the extra spaces with bench warmers and your top xyz imports play ridculous ammounts of ice time and get injured.
Completely disagree!! there are plenty of brits to around, there are hardly any brits to go around as it is that have been given the chance is the difference. As SOOOOO many people have stated on here Burrows has fit in with no problem and that is a player stepping up from the ENL who isnt even the top scorer!! So i am certain that top EPL Brits could do a job just aswell!??
Completely disagree!! there are plenty of brits to around, there are hardly any brits to go around as it is that have been given the chance is the difference. As SOOOOO many people have stated on here Burrows has fit in with no problem and that is a player stepping up from the ENL who isnt even the top scorer!! So i am certain that top EPL Brits could do a job just aswell!??
If import levels dropping mean that spending becomes more uniform I'm all for it.
The standard may drop, but surely evenly skilled teams would make for much better hockey than the top four constantly whipping the bottom four.
I think the quality of what we watch may actually go up as it will be more competitive.
The standard may drop, but surely evenly skilled teams would make for much better hockey than the top four constantly whipping the bottom four.
I think the quality of what we watch may actually go up as it will be more competitive.
I agree whole-heartedly with reducing the import limit to 10. This is a small reduction and, as has been said earlier, we've played some of our best hockey with 10 or less imports ... so why do some bang on about a reduction in quality! One more Brit ... even if not quite as good as the worst import ... really isn't going to make a whole lot of differance.
But doing it slowly is absolutely right ... pick the Brit who has the potential and learns quickly and they will improve so much quicker than a Brit who is not sufficiently tested. So many times over the years I've seen players playing up and then returning to their age group and looking significantly improved after just a couple of games. You have to challenge players to improve them.
If, ultimately, a wage cap begins to narrow the differance in spending between teams then it's a step in the right direction towards more competitive hockey every weekend.
Don't expect everything to fall into place in one season but I think this is a positive step towards reigning in the biggest spenders, and creating a more level playing field, without compromising quality.
But doing it slowly is absolutely right ... pick the Brit who has the potential and learns quickly and they will improve so much quicker than a Brit who is not sufficiently tested. So many times over the years I've seen players playing up and then returning to their age group and looking significantly improved after just a couple of games. You have to challenge players to improve them.
If, ultimately, a wage cap begins to narrow the differance in spending between teams then it's a step in the right direction towards more competitive hockey every weekend.
Don't expect everything to fall into place in one season but I think this is a positive step towards reigning in the biggest spenders, and creating a more level playing field, without compromising quality.
Disappointed the import level was dropped..
I've a feeling now any decent Brit playing or coming through will be signed by the top 5 teams in the league, leaving the other 5 teams with the average to poor Brits..
And I can't see many big teams wanting to put out a lower standard of hockey by signing lesser imports, so they will be signing decent imports as well as signing the top Brits, which will make it less competitive if anything.
I've a feeling now any decent Brit playing or coming through will be signed by the top 5 teams in the league, leaving the other 5 teams with the average to poor Brits..
And I can't see many big teams wanting to put out a lower standard of hockey by signing lesser imports, so they will be signing decent imports as well as signing the top Brits, which will make it less competitive if anything.
Re: Re: 10 imports next season
Strange how Giants fans all seem to think that people will only pay to watch imports. Guess it is the lack of history or home developed talent.
To pick up your last point - we have all agreed with that, and see it as a benefit. With a lower import limit less filler imports will be signed. Higher quality potentially.
I think more slots will make it viable for Brits to try their hand. The top Brits in EPL don't step up because they don't want to warm an Elite bench whilst imports get their slot. Ice time will attract young Brits, along with the promise of playing along side high quality imports.
The Giants need to make sure their development system is up to scratch to help bring through home grown talent to fill the need.
Strange how Giants fans all seem to think that people will only pay to watch imports. Guess it is the lack of history or home developed talent.
To pick up your last point - we have all agreed with that, and see it as a benefit. With a lower import limit less filler imports will be signed. Higher quality potentially.
I think more slots will make it viable for Brits to try their hand. The top Brits in EPL don't step up because they don't want to warm an Elite bench whilst imports get their slot. Ice time will attract young Brits, along with the promise of playing along side high quality imports.
The Giants need to make sure their development system is up to scratch to help bring through home grown talent to fill the need.
The above posts are very true as currently there is only 1 public rink in Ireland, and any junior development means constant travel to Scotland which in todays climate many folk cant afford.
Also they have to contend with not only traditional UK sports but also GAA
The Giants fans were introduced to Hockey with the ISL which was 20x better than whats on offer at the moment. The O was sold out every night and you had to beg or borrow to get tickets.
Clare I dont really get what your trying to say, we have a good quality ammount of brits on our roster who have been signed for next season. I doubt any team in the EIHL would win anything without imports :|
Also they have to contend with not only traditional UK sports but also GAA
The Giants fans were introduced to Hockey with the ISL which was 20x better than whats on offer at the moment. The O was sold out every night and you had to beg or borrow to get tickets.
Clare I dont really get what your trying to say, we have a good quality ammount of brits on our roster who have been signed for next season. I doubt any team in the EIHL would win anything without imports :|
<PLEASE DO NOT CALL PEOPLE STUPID> If EVERY team in the EIHL (or whatever they call it next year) had 10/9/8 imports, surely someone has to win!
It's not like we're talking about unlevel fields here. They are all going to have the same pop at it.
Although the way you're talking anyone would think that the Giants had been told they have to have a full Brit roster whilst everyone else's is uncapped for imports :roll:
It's not like we're talking about unlevel fields here. They are all going to have the same pop at it.
Although the way you're talking anyone would think that the Giants had been told they have to have a full Brit roster whilst everyone else's is uncapped for imports :roll:
I'm sorry but there's something wrong when you're talking about a UK league that has an Import Quota of 70% of the employed players. Thats ridiculous. It shouldn't have gone up in the first place. The league should be aiming for a 50% split as optimum.
The fact is the clubs need to pay the Brits enough to waren't them going full time as hockey players and then you will see the standards they can truely afford. It no coincidence the Brits on full time money continue to be head and shoulders amongst the rest. The Imports are full time hence the levels they can acheive. The Brits have to be invested in not used as a source of cheap labour.
Simple solution to teams just playing imports. Ruling. At all times at least two players on the ice must be Brits. If you've a Brit goalie you're quids in as thats one taken but at the very least it would ensure Brits got a minimum on powerplay and penalty kill lines not just clog the third line.
This league has to compromise standards for long term survival and with time greater growth so reducing the Import limit is a good start.
The fact is the clubs need to pay the Brits enough to waren't them going full time as hockey players and then you will see the standards they can truely afford. It no coincidence the Brits on full time money continue to be head and shoulders amongst the rest. The Imports are full time hence the levels they can acheive. The Brits have to be invested in not used as a source of cheap labour.
Simple solution to teams just playing imports. Ruling. At all times at least two players on the ice must be Brits. If you've a Brit goalie you're quids in as thats one taken but at the very least it would ensure Brits got a minimum on powerplay and penalty kill lines not just clog the third line.
This league has to compromise standards for long term survival and with time greater growth so reducing the Import limit is a good start.
Obviously opinions vary on whats right and wrong, but to me youve near enough described the EPL.
The hard part is you compromise standards so your product drops, and naturally people leave, so great in 3 years youve got a few more brits but no league for them to play in.
The EPL is meant to be a development league if brit players are good enough they should get into the team on merit not just because they are brits.
The hard part is you compromise standards so your product drops, and naturally people leave, so great in 3 years youve got a few more brits but no league for them to play in.
The EPL is meant to be a development league if brit players are good enough they should get into the team on merit not just because they are brits.