Lease Hold Opportunity for Ice Arena Wales.

Thread starter #1
15 Year + lease is available, all applications by 12 noon 25th November 2022.

I hope the ownership group will be making a submission to manage the IAW.

Interesting times ahead.
 

James

Administrator
#4
We should be very concerned if Planet Ice get their hands on the rink, which they will probably be desperate to do. No one can milk a cash-cow till it bleeds like PI (allegedly)
 

pjj365

Well-Known Member
#6
Planet ice would run it into the ground ..look at Coventry and Manchester, shiteholes...need refurbs but won't spend the money.
That's a bit unfair on the Council (never thought I'd write that but bear with me)
With a tight enough contract including enforceable performance criteria and a willingness to carry out that enforcement whoever takes over doesn't really matter. Whether PI would bid under such circumstances - who knows. Whether the Council know enough about the operation to draw up such a contract with the will to enforce it I doubt (told you to bear with me)
if they can't get the requirements right in the invitation it matters even less who wins it PI or ANO
 

James

Administrator
#7
The council will have dealt with PI before and seemed happy for them to take the considerable profits from the tent and (allegedly) funnel them into other parts of the business to claim it made no money so couldn't be maintained to any level.
 

lloyd_jeff

Well-Known Member
#10
I was concerned looking at the site proposal, it mentions each venue & the facilities they will offer. There is no mention of an indoor Go Kart at any venue, yet there‘s photos of an indoor Go Kart, oversight, hype marketing, no idea. It also showed a paddle board court, again no mention of that being planned at any venue.
Whoever gets the lease will need a lot of investment & knowledge, they will need to have a viable business plan, Greenbank specialised in running venues & they couldn’t increase revenues. From a Devils point of view having the lease would mean full use of the facility & no costs to use, downside though is lost revenue from the major user, so how will that hole be filled, that could be a risk too far.
For an outside landlord id imagine the ice agreement will be ripped up & as there is no alternative venue, I’d imagine Devils costs will increase significantly and be passed on or at worst the current owner group jack it in.
Worse case scenario is no leaseholder is found, the Council in their records state the Council do not have the funds to maintain the IAW as is & have no intentions to. The discussions surrounding that scenario was discussed in a Confidential meeting , no record of what happens exsist in the public access. It’s possible a new leaseholder can be found but would want the current venue repurposed into an alternative type of venue, such as a multi purpose sporting venue, to include an indoor Go Kart track.
The relationship between Greenbank & the Council broke down a few yrs ago, the Council has been vocal about not having any interest in the IAW for a number of yrs, the Owners of the Devils organisation should be well aware of the situation, Todd was forced into running it when Greenbank told the Council to shove it up their proverbial. The future of the IAW has been in doubt for a number of yrs, the shelving of the proposed Ski Slope & surrounding development, increased Climate Crisis issues, Brexit & now the current financial crisis are all major hurdles in a situation that was doubtful to succeed well before. The other risk is the Council have a long track record of not implementing their plans, the current plans are still yet to find sufficient investments to fund their proposal, the danger is the replacement cycle track gets the cycle version of the BBT and after several yrs they get a inferior venue. Knowing that history would an investor accept the risk based on the increase in footfall or would they walk away until the development is being built. Judging by the time line, I’d say it’s being rushed, any investor would want security that the area surrounding the IAW was 100% getting built & built quickly. The Council are nowhere near able to give that guarantee.
 
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D

Deleted member 1337

Guest
#11
increased Climate Crisis issues, Brexit.
I'm with you for most of the post but I'm not sure what current climate alarmism and changes in international trade regulations have to do with the rink. I'd say piss poor planning and management for years, no real investment other than patching holes to fix issues as well as staff who have no real clue what they're doing and zero passion for anything other than a free skate around probably has more to do with it.
 

James

Administrator
#12
Green bank had no experience running venues and no idea what to do with the rink, to call them ‘specialists’ is a bit of a stretch. They are a housing development company who built the rink as it gave them the option of land to build residential flats on(which they ended up not doing)
 

Leighton

Active Member
#14
I havent read anything about this outside of whats in this thread - so question.... is it possible an entity could lease the building, a tennis club for example, then pull out the ice and put a tennis court on pad 1? or does it have to remain an ice rink and available to the devils etc?
 

lloyd_jeff

Well-Known Member
#15
I havent read anything about this outside of whats in this thread - so question.... is it possible an entity could lease the building, a tennis club for example, then pull out the ice and put a tennis court on pad 1? or does it have to remain an ice rink and available to the devils etc?
My understanding is the main priority is to keep the IAW as an ice venue, if no tenders are forthcoming for that, then yes if an application to repurpose the venue is suitable to the Council it could. Its all depending on who applies.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
#16
They used to run Leigh Sports Village in a similar deal to Cardiff, until it was brought under the Leigh Sports village Company.
Run it or built it?
Fairly sure I remember when IAW was being built that Greenbank had never run any of their projects themselves before. Hence why they brought in the staff from the BBT.
Greenbank were only interested in IAW because it would have allowed them to build the rest of the housing.
 

lloyd_jeff

Well-Known Member
#17
I’ll clarify for you then, Greenbank are the developers, they’ve never built a building or run a sports ground, ice rink whatever. What they do is appoint people to. So basically they’ll source management teams, builders, structural engineers, PR consultants, lighting consultants etc etc etc. The agreement was for Greenbank to build all three phases of the development, phase 1 being the IAW, phase 2 & 3 the ski slope and retail, restaurants, parking. Once completed Greenbank would then appoint management, staff etc to operate the facilities. Investors would then be repaid in the way investors do.
The council cotracted Greenbank to build and operate the development, Greenbank specialised in building developments such as Cardiff & Leigh and other projects from Councils around the U.K. successfully.
It then transpired that Cardiff Council couldn’t find investors willing to fund the building of the future phases, the relationship broke down, Greenbank annoyed that it would only have the housing & IAW, plug pulled on the operation side. The rest is history.
Now we’ve a repeat with Maindy track being sold to a property developer & moved to ISV, same remit, very ambitious plans to develop the area with zero investors lined up, they’ll tender developers who’ll just as in the case of the IAW build a cheaper version & paper over the cracks by offering the developers some housing to offset their loss.
 
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kettdevil1

Well-Known Member
#18
I’ll clarify for you then, Greenbank are the developers, they’ve never built a building or run a sports ground, ice rink whatever. What they do is appoint people to. So basically they’ll source management teams, builders, structural engineers, PR consultants, lighting consultants etc etc etc. The agreement was for Greenbank to build all three phases of the development, phase 1 being the IAW, phase 2 & 3 the ski slope and retail, restaurants, parking. Once completed Greenbank would then appoint management, staff etc to operate the facilities. Investors would then be repaid in the way investors do.
The council cotracted Greenbank to build and operate the development, Greenbank specialised in building developments such as Cardiff & Leigh and other projects from Councils around the U.K. successfully.
It then transpired that Cardiff Council couldn’t find investors willing to fund the building of the future phases, the relationship broke down, Greenbank annoyed that it would only have the housing & IAW, plug pulled on the operation side. The rest is history.
Now we’ve a repeat with Maindy track being sold to a property developer & moved to ISV, same remit, very ambitious plans to develop the area with zero investors lined up, they’ll tender developers who’ll just as in the case of the IAW build a cheaper version & paper over the cracks by offering the developers some housing to offset their loss.
A cheaper version of Maindy is an entertaining thought, I once fell off after hitting a pothole when riding there! I am struggling with the simile though, there appears to be a written commitment from the council that Maindy stays open until the replacement is built, hence, I would suggest that any development is a step forward and to be welcomed. I know Cardiff Council are not always perfect in their attention to detail but there seems to be a win-win scenario here with cyclists getting a new velodrome and the developer getting the opportunity to make some money.

If what you have said is accurate then if I was Cardiff Council I would beef up the break clause and lock in the developers a little more than you say Greenbank were
 

lloyd_jeff

Well-Known Member
#19
I’m not a cyclist or up to date on the Maindy situation, a written commitment to build a replacement may not please the users if it’s the cycling equivalent of the BBT, if such a thing exists. My point being their elaborate ambitions never reach the light of day.
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
#20
My understanding of the proposed velodrome was that it would basically screw up the car parking for the over rink. The council are delusional enough to believe that everyone using the rink is going to travel in on public transport, or on a bike. I'd trust that shower no further than I could throw them.
 
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