My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and girls)

[Wannabe2]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

"We all want to be successful and have to change our culture. Ice hockey in Britain has changed from the old physical approach to become faster and more skilled." - Paul Ragan.

Source: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/ice-hockey/major-decisions-ahead-brent-pope-6592999

I find this comment slightly bizarre. PR seems to think the league is going away from the usual north american/Candian hockey style and adopting the European style instead. Does anyone see this happening?

I'm not complaining if so, just curious.

Thats why the team that won the treble last year have just signed another tough Canadian, and why the team that are running away with the league have so many Nth Americans and are Tough, as are the Steelers, and yet HMV disagrees, right got it now????. Cardiff have never been known to be bullied, but that could change.

 

[Foxy]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Which actually beings me to my next point, what is the required action by the club to make amends?

Is thus now solely a push to make Ragan sell? Because I can't support that. It is too extreme a position, you're asking for a man to walk away from something he obviously has a load of pride and ambition in. He may be making mistakes but I don't doubt he thinks he is doing the right thing with his money.

There must be somewhere in the middle that all sides can get to. Somewhere the bad feeling in both camp be put to one side and we can build upon.

"What do we want?"
"Fair and open dialogue, a change in culture and a feeling that the club will do the right thing"
"When do we want it"
"Kick off meeting Tuesday, with change audit board elected and meeting twice weekly until situation is resolved"

Not the snappiest chat, but probably a fair reflection of where this fight should be heading.

Get rid of Pope as he is the person to blame for all of this and the one with the agenda. PR is a business man with no background of ice hockey and he he is gullibly believing everything that pope is drip feeding him.

PR to act with more respect when in and around the fans. Mumbling insults about the players during the game is not acceptable and start listening to the fans when they have a grievance instead of slagging them off and dismissing them on social media. In other words grow up if you want to be treated like a business man act like one.

Get a new coach in. Someone who is going to be around for the whole season and knows what they are doing and get someone like Kelman for GM position and not someone whose arrogant and talks through their posterior as though he's gods gift to ice hockey. Pope was a crap coach at Romford and lasted one season and was an average blinking ice hockey player in his time.

 

[Mooney#16]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

It might be a trend being driven by league officials and referees though. The refs are IIHF guys and generally ref to the rule book and style of European hockey and not North American. They also ref within international competitions which on the whole are far more fast paced and skilled than fraught with rough housing and cheap shots. The bans handed down by Moray have been very restrictive on rough stuff and with the instigator rule has tied the hands of the enforcers. This league is by design going in the direction of fast transition hockey not grinding dump and chase forechecking and trap D which have been the life blood of the Devils for years.

On this one particular subject I would agree with Brent. Hockey has changed globally in its thinking and players now have to have serious wheels to compete and with good hands thrown in. It's not about nationality but it is about hockey philosophies. If players are available who can transition the puck better and have the wheels to beat defensive systems while retaining possession you would take them in a flash. It's frankly bull to just say Europeans come cheap. It's an urban myth. There is serious money on the continent in hockey. Crap players come cheap irrespective of nationality. If Brent wants to try to adapt the team to and system to better accommodate the refereeing in this league good on him. He is allowed to pioneer a concept also and it will serve him well to have adapted that style when entering the new building and larger ice surface if he ever gets there of course.

I think fans need to hold there hands up and admit that barring a few they are wholly uneducated and informed to make statements about player recruitment and playing systems. It's opinion based on very little knowledge in reality.

Like I will continue to say. Fight for players treatment. Fight for better governance. But recruitment policy, style and systems. It's not devils fans strong point.

 

[mazza03]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Which actually beings me to my next point, what is the required action by the club to make amends?

Is thus now solely a push to make Ragan sell? Because I can't support that. It is too extreme a position, you're asking for a man to walk away from something he obviously has a load of pride and ambition in. He may be making mistakes but I don't doubt he thinks he is doing the right thing with his money.

There must be somewhere in the middle that all sides can get to. Somewhere the bad feeling in both camp be put to one side and we can build upon.

"What do we want?"
"Fair and open dialogue, a change in culture and a feeling that the club will do the right thing"
"When do we want it"
"Kick off meeting Tuesday, with change audit board elected and meeting twice weekly until situation is resolved"

Not the snappiest chat, but probably a fair reflection of where this fight should be heading.

Get rid of Pope as he is the person to blame for all of this and the one with the agenda. PR is a business man with no background of ice hockey and he he is gullibly believing everything that pope is drip feeding him.

PR to act with more respect when in and around the fans. Mumbling insults about the players during the game is not acceptable and start listening to the fans when they have a grievance instead of slagging them off and dismissing them on social media. In other words grow up if you want to be treated like a business man act like one.

Get a new coach in. Someone who is going to be around for the whole season and knows what they are doing and get someone like Kelman for GM position and not someone whose arrogant and talks through their posterior as though he's gods gift to ice hockey. Pope was a crap coach at Romford and lasted one season and was an average blinking ice hockey player in his time.

 

[Burgy]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Which actually beings me to my next point, what is the required action by the club to make amends?

Is thus now solely a push to make Ragan sell? Because I can't support that. It is too extreme a position, you're asking for a man to walk away from something he obviously has a load of pride and ambition in. He may be making mistakes but I don't doubt he thinks he is doing the right thing with his money.

There must be somewhere in the middle that all sides can get to. Somewhere the bad feeling in both camp be put to one side and we can build upon.

"What do we want?"
"Fair and open dialogue, a change in culture and a feeling that the club will do the right thing"
"When do we want it"
"Kick off meeting Tuesday, with change audit board elected and meeting twice weekly until situation is resolved"

Not the snappiest chat, but probably a fair reflection of where this fight should be heading.

Get rid of Pope as he is the person to blame for all of this and the one with the agenda. PR is a business man with no background of ice hockey and he he is gullibly believing everything that pope is drip feeding him.

PR to act with more respect when in and around the fans. Mumbling insults about the players during the game is not acceptable and start listening to the fans when they have a grievance instead of slagging them off and dismissing them on social media. In other words grow up if you want to be treated like a business man act like one.

Get a new coach in. Someone who is going to be around for the whole season and knows what they are doing and get someone like Kelman for GM position and not someone whose arrogant and talks through their posterior as though he's gods gift to ice hockey. Pope was a crap coach at Romford and lasted one season and was an average blinking ice hockey player in his time.

Agree with you Foxy

 

[Burgy]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Tired to add more to my reply:

Agree with you on your three points Foxy and agree with many other points as raised by Paul and others on here.

Some of us decide to look deeper and past the game itself to the off ice actions and behavior.

This is what is the group of fans deciding to get behind the #outside will be protesting about

The events that we have all been talking about have ruined my enjoyment of coming to Cardiff to watch hockey.

 

[buzzwagon]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Which actually beings me to my next point, what is the required action by the club to make amends?

Is thus now solely a push to make Ragan sell? Because I can't support that. It is too extreme a position, you're asking for a man to walk away from something he obviously has a load of pride and ambition in. He may be making mistakes but I don't doubt he thinks he is doing the right thing with his money.

There must be somewhere in the middle that all sides can get to. Somewhere the bad feeling in both camp be put to one side and we can build upon.

"What do we want?"
"Fair and open dialogue, a change in culture and a feeling that the club will do the right thing"
"When do we want it"
"Kick off meeting Tuesday, with change audit board elected and meeting twice weekly until situation is resolved"

Not the snappiest chat, but probably a fair reflection of where this fight should be heading.

Get rid of Pope as he is the person to blame for all of this and the one with the agenda. PR is a business man with no background of ice hockey and he he is gullibly believing everything that pope is drip feeding him.

PR to act with more respect when in and around the fans. Mumbling insults about the players during the game is not acceptable and start listening to the fans when they have a grievance instead of slagging them off and dismissing them on social media. In other words grow up if you want to be treated like a business man act like one.

Get a new coach in. Someone who is going to be around for the whole season and knows what they are doing and get someone like Kelman for GM position and not someone whose arrogant and talks through their posterior as though he's gods gift to ice hockey. Pope was a crap coach at Romford and lasted one season and was an average blinking ice hockey player in his time.

+1. Good post!

 

[TheStub]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

It might be a trend being driven by league officials and referees though. The refs are IIHF guys and generally ref to the rule book and style of European hockey and not North American. They also ref within international competitions which on the whole are far more fast paced and skilled than fraught with rough housing and cheap shots. The bans handed down by Moray have been very restrictive on rough stuff and with the instigator rule has tied the hands of the enforcers. This league is by design going in the direction of fast transition hockey not grinding dump and chase forechecking and trap D which have been the life blood of the Devils for years.

On this one particular subject I would agree with Brent. Hockey has changed globally in its thinking and players now have to have serious wheels to compete and with good hands thrown in. It's not about nationality but it is about hockey philosophies. If players are available who can transition the puck better and have the wheels to beat defensive systems while retaining possession you would take them in a flash. It's frankly bull to just say Europeans come cheap. It's an urban myth. There is serious money on the continent in hockey. Crap players come cheap irrespective of nationality. If Brent wants to try to adapt the team to and system to better accommodate the refereeing in this league good on him. He is allowed to pioneer a concept also and it will serve him well to have adapted that style when entering the new building and larger ice surface if he ever gets there of course.

I think fans need to hold there hands up and admit that barring a few they are wholly uneducated and informed to make statements about player recruitment and playing systems. It's opinion based on very little knowledge in reality.

Like I will continue to say. Fight for players treatment. Fight for better governance. But recruitment policy, style and systems. It's not devils fans strong point.

Great post.

Anyone following the NHL will be seeing the same tends. Look at some of the bans and fines handed out this season.

Also, on what planet are euro players pansies? Are all the top NHL Euro players crap and pansies? To say that Euro players are universally crap is to effectively mark anything you else you say about hockey meaningless.

Judge the players on their play..

...and more passing hockey please. That doesn't mean we have to be physically shy.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[danhall76]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Euro players aren't pansies when it comes to hitting but won't drop the gloves. What we'll see is the stickwork that is rife in euro leagues which will cause a lot of injuries.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TheStub]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Euro players aren't pansies when it comes to hitting but won't drop the gloves. What we'll see is the stickwork that is rife in euro leagues which will cause a lot of injuries.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Dropping the mitts is being reffed out, and personally I think that's a good thing. But there are plenty of big euro guys who will go - dropping the mitts is due to reffing less than the players.

Judge the team on the players not your preconceptions.

 

[10redcastleknight]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

It might be a trend being driven by league officials and referees though. The refs are IIHF guys and generally ref to the rule book and style of European hockey and not North American. They also ref within international competitions which on the whole are far more fast paced and skilled than fraught with rough housing and cheap shots. The bans handed down by Moray have been very restrictive on rough stuff and with the instigator rule has tied the hands of the enforcers. This league is by design going in the direction of fast transition hockey not grinding dump and chase forechecking and trap D which have been the life blood of the Devils for years.

On this one particular subject I would agree with Brent. Hockey has changed globally in its thinking and players now have to have serious wheels to compete and with good hands thrown in. It's not about nationality but it is about hockey philosophies. If players are available who can transition the puck better and have the wheels to beat defensive systems while retaining possession you would take them in a flash. It's frankly bull to just say Europeans come cheap. It's an urban myth. There is serious money on the continent in hockey. Crap players come cheap irrespective of nationality. If Brent wants to try to adapt the team to and system to better accommodate the refereeing in this league good on him. He is allowed to pioneer a concept also and it will serve him well to have adapted that style when entering the new building and larger ice surface if he ever gets there of course.

I think fans need to hold there hands up and admit that barring a few they are wholly uneducated and informed to make statements about player recruitment and playing systems. It's opinion based on very little knowledge in reality.

Like I will continue to say. Fight for players treatment. Fight for better governance. But recruitment policy, style and systems. It's not devils fans strong point.

Once again a sensible post from Dave, one who has actually played the game. However, if we are going to have a new coach, as Brent has stated, will he have the same philosophy regarding non north American players? I and my family and friends will continue to follow the club, albeit with a heavy heart at times.

 

[jimmy snels]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Zdeno Chára (Slovak) being a prime example of a pansie European who won't drop the gloves WD

I really dispare at some of you. It wouldn't matter what it was you'd be moaning. No doubts there's been some shabby pr put out etc but in all honesty you've gone beyond what a fan should know by getting close to the players and club. I think the best thing most of you could do is step back and just watch the bloody game... like me! We were really good last night. Get over on that thread and talk hockey

 

[TheStub]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Shall we add Jagr and Zubrus to the list of pansie European trained players?

Or Ovechkin or Kovalchuk?

 

[TheStub]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Actually Kovalchuk is a good example of how the style and officiating of a league can effect a player. Or make a player appear. He was worth a couple of fights a season in the NHL, and wasn't scared of skating through anyone. The KHL makes him a premier skill guy, with a physical edge.

But he can hit. Man he can hit.

 

[Mooney#16]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Simply. Max Boom Boom Birbraer. A Israeli Kazahk dual international. No North American there. Can't check the weather let alone a North American. Oh wait there.

 

[TheStub]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Simply. Max Boom Boom Birbraer. A Israeli Kazahk dual international. No North American there. Can't check the weather let alone a North American. Oh wait there.

+1

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[jimmy snels]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Lets be honest guys we could go on another world record run and I suspect a few people would still moan. There are agendas on both sides.

People protesting best make sure they have the majority backing as with any "union". Otherwise they are being ott without trying other tactics firsts and judging opinion.. Imo a poll or questionnaire should be first step with results given to PR to show what fans are unhappy about. If that is ignored you move to a stronger tactic. To me these tactics currently are a means of destabilising with strikes of bitterness and self righteousness. Please bear in mind I have stated many things I don't agree with that the club have done so would happily voice my opinion if given a means to

 

[buzzwagon]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

I think a few of you are firing off names of European players but just because they were born in Europe doesn't mean they were schooled or coached in Europe.
A lot of young European prospects end up being taken over to N.America to be coached.
I'm sure if you ask Max I believe he went over to N.America as a teenager.
So just because a player is born in Europe doesn't. Necessary mean he learnt his trade there.

 

[Mooney#16]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

Inversely why do so many North Americans head to Europe when their chance at the show has extinguished. Career path. Chasing a dream and money followed by chasing the money. As a teenager you can have had a lot of your hockey principles already drummed into you by very established development systems. It's proves. Even in North America they grasp the need for a diverse roster with a full range of skills is required even at junior level.

 

[Tad#]

Re: My Bumper Cardiff Devils debate thread for boys (and gir

I don't think there's anything wrong with European hockey. Managed to watch a couple of Troja games this season and they still throw hits etc. The only thing they don't do is fight, which doesn't bother me really as they're rarely that good.