The failing Elite League model

Pleximan

Active Member
Thread starter #1
Problems, problems, problems! That is the Elite League!

Every season the smaller clubs just have the life squeezed out of them, Newcastle, Manchester and Basingstoke all struggled in the Elite League before dropping down to EPL.
Edinburgh have been teetering for a few years and of course Cardiff and Hull are no strangers to the financial struggle either.
This year Dundee, Fife, Edinburgh and Hull are the bottom 4 teams and will be happy to see the season through, and now Coventry have declared they too are suffering financially and had to release probably their best import player.

Meanwhile in Sheffield.........it's spend, spend, spend just like any other year. Nottingham and Belfast loading up with the better imports and a full roster hell bent on leaving the rest of the teams to struggle in their wake.
How can this crazy situation be allowed to continue?

Personally I would advocate the Devils dropping down to the EPL and hopefully the rest would follow suit......minus Sheffield, Nottingham and Belfast.
I would like to see the EPL welcome Cardiff, Coventry, Braehead, Hull, Fife, Dundee and Edinburgh into their league to join the existing clubs there. With perhaps an 8 import limit and the league structured into regions, perhaps Northern, Midlands and Southern, hopefully then we will arrive at a good sustainable product that all times can compete in and are capable of beating any team on any given night, thus creating a good, credible league run under strict guidelines.

More importantly this league would have no Sheffield, no Nottingham and no Belfast, they should be barred entry. How can a league exist with 90% of the teams playing out of small to medium sized rinks and then 3 teams playing in 6000+ arenas?
It doesn't work, they will always spend bigger than everyone else forcing the other teams to try to keep up.

This scenario occurred a few years ago when Superleague was left with 5 teams in it after the other clubs dropped down through financial worries, and here we are again at the same spot. No lessons have been learned at all and the arena teams have been allowed to dictate the pace to the others.

The EPL should expand their league to incorporate Cardiff, Coventry, Braehead, Hull, Fife, Dundee and Edinburgh and go with regional divisions to keep costs low with inter-divisional games in the fixture schedule less frequent than division games. The teams in the South would then have a Scottish double header away weekend or 2 when they are away to the Scottish teams and vice versa to create a better and more financially sustainable schedule keeping travel costs to a minimum.

As for Sheffield, Nottingham and Belfast? Well they are ruining the sport with their big arenas driving the smaller clubs to ruin, so cut them adrift and let them play in their own 3 team Elite/Superleague while the EPL grows a good sustainable league for the vast majority to prosper.

Pleximan :)
 

Wannabe2

Well-Known Member
#2
How many existing EPL teams would be happy to sign 8 imports, and the good Brits would then command much higher wages, would the admission cost be the same.
 
#3
I agree with the idea of dropping down to the Epl

But I'm not sure we can be dictating how many imports etc "they" should be allowed

If we drop I think it would have to be on there terms wouldn't it

But then I'm not sure how or who runs the EPL
 

Wannabe2

Well-Known Member
#4
I actually wouldnt buy my 3 season tickets to watch EPL Hockey, thats no disrespect to those who already go, just my take on it. 25 yrs i have followed my club, but that would be the end of the sports for me, thats my take on it. Yes i know about being up Creek Street, no-one has to explain that to me after all this time, but in a revised EIHL league and with the proper leadership i cant see why we would have to drop, its the league that has to change more than anything else. Sorry this club deserves better than a 2nd tier place.
 

Pleximan

Active Member
Thread starter #6
Wannabe2 said:
I actually wouldnt buy my 3 season tickets to watch EPL Hockey, thats no disrespect to those who already go, just my take on it. 25 yrs i have followed my club, but that would be the end of the sports for me, thats my take on it. Yes i know about being up Creek Street, no-one has to explain that to me after all this time, but in a revised EIHL league and with the proper leadership i cant see why we would have to drop, its the league that has to change more than anything else. Sorry this club deserves better than a 2nd tier place.
Bye bye then.

No league format will work with 3 arena teams in it, it has been proven to the near brink repeatedly.
 

Gazza272

Well-Known Member
#7
Pleximan said:
Wannabe2 said:
I actually wouldnt buy my 3 season tickets to watch EPL Hockey, thats no disrespect to those who already go, just my take on it. 25 yrs i have followed my club, but that would be the end of the sports for me, thats my take on it. Yes i know about being up Creek Street, no-one has to explain that to me after all this time, but in a revised EIHL league and with the proper leadership i cant see why we would have to drop, its the league that has to change more than anything else. Sorry this club deserves better than a 2nd tier place.
Bye bye then.

No league format will work with 3 arena teams in it, it has been proven to the near brink repeatedly.

I dont think the arena teams have ever been the reason leagues have failed. And I dont think a solution of losing the Nottingham panthers and 6000 hockey fans with it is ever going to be a go er.
 

Pleximan

Active Member
Thread starter #8
Gazza272 said:
Pleximan said:
Wannabe2 said:
I actually wouldnt buy my 3 season tickets to watch EPL Hockey, thats no disrespect to those who already go, just my take on it. 25 yrs i have followed my club, but that would be the end of the sports for me, thats my take on it. Yes i know about being up Creek Street, no-one has to explain that to me after all this time, but in a revised EIHL league and with the proper leadership i cant see why we would have to drop, its the league that has to change more than anything else. Sorry this club deserves better than a 2nd tier place.
Bye bye then.

No league format will work with 3 arena teams in it, it has been proven to the near brink repeatedly.

I dont think the arena teams have ever been the reason leagues have failed. And I dont think a solution of losing the Nottingham panthers and 6000 hockey fans with it is ever going to be a go er.
What is the reason then? In your opinion....
 

Ocko

Well-Known Member
#9
Didnt Sheffield regularly pull in big crowds in the Premier League days? The market is there, initially I imagine the arena teams will lose a bit of their crowds but new fans will come and be used to the 'lower standard' of a lower import level. They/we all had to do it when teams gradually dropped out / end of the ISL, which was a much higher standard. The only problem I see is Belfast as they obviously will stop at nothing to win, I think they would prefer to drop out rather than be subjected to a level playing field. Sorry to any Belfast fans but it would save teams a fortune if that happened...

I think the BNL was a great model, it's just a shame that once again owners wanted more. Lots of youngsters coming through, good imports and lots of rivalries. It was actually nice to play some different teams for a change too, like Guilford, Coventry (our rivalry and most intense games started there), Dundee were a top team. A conference structure based on that standard would be perfect in my eyes. Also a play off final over 2 legs, not as good as a series but an awful lot better than Nottingham being at home for every weekend foreverQ
 
#10
Ah the old it's all the fault of the arena teams, yes you just get rid of 10-15k of fans and potential players and everything will be rosy :idea:
Honestly look at mooneys post in the other thread.
:DWD

Btw braehead are an arena team owned by the Panthers Neil Black :roll:
 

TheStub

Active Member
#12
For those who complain that they couldn't enjoy a lower standard of hockey, it's time to wake up. The hockey is already a low standard, and we are splitting hairs about how low the low is. If you want to watch the best hockey, I suggest forking out £100 on NHL Game Centre Live and staying at home. The EIHL, EPL and ENL will only disappoint.

The reason many of us turn up week after week is because we relish the thrill of seeing hockey in real life (and often go home and watch an NHL game or two). So - would "dropping" be that bad? I think not - but I also don't see it as the future.

Currently the Devils are almost living the new model. We are flying with 8 imports (although we are paying 10) - and have done for a month. A month where we haven't done too badly.

Going to 8 imports would increase the "Britishness" of the sport, whilst also providing a middle ground between EPL and EIHL. Fill the slots with young Brits, and quality imports (not the grinders some teams have been bringing over). Set decent limits on spending, maybe as a percentage of revenue, or just a hard cap (with a hard floor) - make the league title about recruiting and training, not bank balances. Really get the fans in.

BUT THIS ALL NEEDS TO COME FROM THE GOVERNING BODY AND THE LEAGUES.

We can postulate about formats, imports, colour of the mugs, until the cows come home - what we lack is central marketing. In short, all the leagues need to work together and sell the sport. Too long have we had little small businesses around the UK working on a micro scale. Selling not the EIHL, but the Cardiff Devils, Nottingham Panthers, Guildford Flames... and living in the false hope that once someone watches hockey they will come back and back without any follow-up work.

If you look at the Football Premier League, or the NHL they have very tight media images. The league sells itself, and the teams are franchises of the league (both in a figurative and literal sense dependent on the league).

As Murph on Ice (http://www.murphonice.com/?p=644) said - it is a hell of a lot of entertainment for change of £20. We just need to sell it right. With 8 imports.
 

TheStub

Active Member
#14
But not a fair one I feel.

If we drop to the EPL, then I would guess we would have to go with their caps and 6 imports (and only 3 on the ice at any given time). But if we actually rethought the whole failed EIHL mess, what would that look like?

If we had a better league model, would MK and Flames join (as they talked about doing at the start)? I believe the Flames regularly run with 8 imports. It is the arms race in the EIHL that really puts them off.

A genuine question back - would 8 (or even 6) imports put you off coming to matches? Would you try it to see if there actually would be a drop in quality? If the "top flight" was 3 imports, would you come then?

Trying to get a grasp on what the barrier to fans would be.
 

TheStub

Active Member
#16
Ingramator said:
What would epl mean to way hockey is played? Season tickets? Prices etc genuine question as I don't know much about epl
Lord knows - we've never done it.

Personally, I'd rather lower level hockey be played than no hockey... I also hope that we can revitalise the whole EIHL.

If the EIHL were to fail, we probably have a reasonable option of EPL, as do Coventry - but what about everyone else? I doubt the EPL would want to expand that far north.
 

Gazza272

Well-Known Member
#17
Pleximan said:
[q

What is the reason then? In your opinion....

plain and simply teams overspend to get crowds in.

Look at the Arena teams in the league. Nottingham are the most financially and operationally sound team in the league. So why is it their fault the rest spend too much? they get it right, they should not be punished for that.

Giants seem to be going the same way.

Sheffield not so much but one out of 4 aint bad.

Braehead too early to say.

Quite simply telling the arena teams where to go isnt the right way to go. It's essentially doing to them what you and others say they currently do to us, we dont like it very much so we shouldnt really be advocating the same treatment.


We need a strong governing body and a 10 year plan for junior development which requires the co operation of everyone in the game.

Its never going to happen so i dont worry about it much anymore. Just tell me hwen to go to the tent when i can to pay my £16.50 and i'll pay it right now. Why? because if all this aint changed in 25 i'm going to have to wait another 25 for it to change. Too many ego's too many scars too many folk who either listen to the wrong people in the sport or go gung ho thinking they can change decades of poor practises.


In short. It definately aint the arena teams that are the sole problem here. Everyone needs to look deeper
 
#18
Re: Re: The failing Elite League model

TheStub said:
Ingramator said:
What would epl mean to way hockey is played? Season tickets? Prices etc genuine question as I don't know much about epl
Lord knows - we've never done it.

Personally, I'd rather lower level hockey be played than no hockey... I also hope that we can revitalise the whole EIHL.

If the EIHL were to fail, we probably have a reasonable option of EPL, as do Coventry - but what about everyone else? I doubt the EPL would want to expand that far north.
Yes definatly, I just hope eihl are looking at this and seeing how bad if actually is! Wait for the forum on 19th hopefully will be on mnl
 

Sheincar

Well-Known Member
#19
Personally I think that the Paul Mac BNL season was one of the best seasons ever. Thoroughly enjoyed my hockey that year & didn't really notice any difference in the standard of hockey - until we played the Panthers in cross-over games. Was great to get to different rinks too.
 

TheStub

Active Member
#20
Gazza272 said:
We need a strong governing body and a 10 year plan for junior development which requires the co operation of everyone in the game.

Its never going to happen so i dont worry about it much anymore. Just tell me hwen to go to the tent when i can to pay my £16.50 and i'll pay it right now. Why? because if all this aint changed in 25 i'm going to have to wait another 25 for it to change. Too many ego's too many scars too many folk who either listen to the wrong people in the sport or go gung ho thinking they can change decades of poor practices.
I couldn't agree more, on both points. The League needs to get it's act together, and we need to finally have a product.

Too many people have rocked up into the sport, and tried to buy 15 years worth of development with cheap imports. Ironically, if the ISL hadn't happened we would probably have a quality of hockey better than the EIHL - grown organically by developing players and teams.

Instead we are probably heading towards yet another collapse.

Ingramator said:
Yes definatly, I just hope eihl are looking at this and seeing how bad if actually is! Wait for the forum on 19th hopefully will be on mnl
We shall see what the club allow us to do.

It would be nice if this could be streamed live.
 
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