The failing Elite League model

[jester]

Wage cap I can understand, but again it must be set at what is sustainable to each club would it be fair to have the Caps and Panthers on the same budget?

But why an import limit?

If you have a wage cap you can scrap the import limit which means you wouldnt have to pay inflated salaries for Brit players, which should level out the playing field.

Also look at the DEL Swzez who played for the Giants isnt classed as an import because he holds dual nationality, again if someone can play for GB they shouldnt be then classed as an import in the EIHL.

 

[Hynod]

But why an import limit?

My person reason for this is the joy in watching the junior devils come up through the ranks. The pride you get watching them is second to none. I also can understand why other teams don't understand this as they don't have a great youth set up like the Devils.

 

[jester]

But why an import limit?

My person reason for this is the joy in watching the junior devils come up through the ranks. The pride you get watching them is second to none. I also can understand why other teams don't understand this as they don't have a great youth set up like the Devils.

Scrapping an import limit but having a cap in place shouldnt hold back youth development

 

[Mooney#16]

Now I've stated before my issues as far as the Arena clubs goes and they are not that they ruin the rink teams but that they actually prevent better growth and expansion of the EIHL product. And I mean product not spending. A product I believe could put more bums on seats for the other clubs.

However you can't just cut the Arena teams out. Thats ridiculous. They are the chief revenue makers within UK hockey and to cut out that level of cash will simply set you back. However and this is where all the owners need to finally do whats best. Revenue sharing is the key. The league has a income and expenditure as a whole. Deal with it as a whole through central league governence and provide the insentives through proper league prize monies that can be invested and offered to players in bonuses. It's not all about cut backs but it is about changing practises. At the end of the day it is then actually in everyones interests for the capacity rinks to be filled as it brings more money into the whole league.

This operational set up of 8 different companies all looking out for themselves just destabilises the whole thing as they end up working against each other. They should be working together and more importantly under one banner of a centralised eihl board. The EIHL is workable and with Arena teams in it but the cooperation has to improve ten fold for it to survive.

Problem is I think there are too many big egos playing big boys toys and doing what is right for UK hockey as a whole has always played second fiddle to the short term issues. If it were me. All should stump up cash and go out and head hunt yourself a true hockey GM who can come in and overhual the league from top to bottom not the current crop who claim they know hockey but frankly know business but nothing to do with hockey.

I really would not go down the road of scrapping the import limit. This is UK hockey afterall. Imports are here to bolster the standard of the league and improve the quality of the Brits. Any Brit loosing a spot to an Import would be a travesty and I think to drive down the saleries of the Brits is counter productive as if they can't afford to be pro and have to swap to semi I would have to guess some will lose an edge from lack of training. UK hockeys biggest promotion would come from a GB team playing BBC prime time at the Olympic games and that is for me the aim that all in the UK should be aiming for.

 

[Finny]

wouldnt there be an increase in the quality of the imports themselves tho at the bigger higher spending clubs, as they would have just as much cash to splash on less players, meaning the drop in quality might not even happen and still lead to the dangerous gap still existing?

For the quality of imports to increase the EPL would have to get rid of it's non-WP rule.
That would only happen though if the EIHL collapsed and no other league was formed in its place.

 

[Mooney#16]

wouldnt there be an increase in the quality of the imports themselves tho at the bigger higher spending clubs, as they would have just as much cash to splash on less players, meaning the drop in quality might not even happen and still lead to the dangerous gap still existing?

For the quality of imports to increase the EPL would have to get rid of it's non-WP rule.
That would only happen though if the EIHL collapsed and no other league was formed in its place.

I'm not sure thats accurate. Whilst hockey in the UK is North American dominated if the European players were offered parity pay you would get very good standard imports without work permits. Look at Edinburgh. If there europeans had EIHL level brits in support they would be a real threat. It may even benefit the EIHL to have a more european outlook.

 

[osh]

Lots of very decent arguments so far on this topic, just goes to show our concern. I really hope PR reads this section and I feel sure some ideas are workable for both the Devils and also the league to survive.

 

[jester]

I'm not sure thats accurate. Whilst hockey in the UK is North American dominated if the European players were offered parity pay you would get very good standard imports without work permits. Look at Edinburgh. If there europeans had EIHL level brits in support they would be a real threat. It may even benefit the EIHL to have a more european outlook.

Thats not the issue mate if your not trained in the UK at junior level you get classed as an import.

The EPL wont allow players if the need a work permit which differs from the EIHL who will, and TBH with the level of the euro at the moment apart from flights I cant see euros being that much cheaper.

 

[Mooney#16]

Sorry. Think two strands have merged. Finny commented the EPL would have to drop the work permit restriction to improve the standard of Import. I don't think that is true. Work permits aren't the restriction. Finances are. If you offer European players decent EIHL import saleries you would get very good standard european imports in this country.

The Eliteleague coaches all seem very set in there ways when it comes to recruitment that north american is best but it isn't neccessarliy the case. Look at Edinburgh. One North American and the rest European. They are doing ok. I think its their weakness in the Brit departmenet that is holding them back not there imports.

The dual national debate is a whole other issue. Whilst I see the benefit in standard that could be taken from changing the EIHL import criteria I just don't think it would benefit UK hockey as a whole. You want Brits playing and more importantly when there careers are over you want them to stay and pass on there knowledge. I know there are exceptions to that such as Poirier but most duals do end up heading back so the longer term benefit is to have these players who have played at the highest level move into coaching and start to reinforce the game from the bottom up.

 

[fried egg]

I think not enough emphasis is being put on "competitive hockey"and too much on "quality hockey".A happy medium has to be struck somehow.I've been to many boxing shows and often the best fight of the night has come from the undercard not top of the bill.In other words the two fighters who have been well matched.Anyone whos seen a boxer outclassed knows it's not good viewing a bit like the Caps last season being offered up as cannon fodder.

 

[Salsiccia]

I think not enough emphasis is being put on "competitive hockey"and too much on "quality hockey".A happy medium has to be struck somehow.

Totally agree.

 

[Mooney#16]

Agree ish. I could tell you all you want to know about competitive hockey but at the same time it would all be in reference to rec and we all know few people come and watch that even when its free because they think its bobbins.

It's by no coincidence the highest average attendences that UK hockey has seen were during the ISL days. It was the best level of hockey the UK has ever seen. And competitive granted. But it was unaffordable. People do however know what they are watching and so whilst competition is good people do want it with a standard to go along with. Personnally I'm not in favour of dumbing the eliteleague down. What I am in favour of is the rich kids helping out the poor kids to help make the league a far more financially stable platform. Not parity granted but share the incomes to allow stable squads to be signed at seasons start and operated until seasons end and don't go bust in the middle. Clubs fall down because there financial predictions get harpooned by sponsors or attendences and suddenly a debt builds around them as they have fixed expenditure. This needs to be reduced. All the clubs need to be sharing the whole way through the year and backing each other up to prevent the losses steam rolling on teams to stages where they are unrecoverable. Therefore if Nottingham and Belfast do well and fill there buildings then Fife and Edinburgh also profit as they get a mini windfall to assist their funds and allows them to maintain their competitive squad. They still operate within there domestic means but have a slight financial leg up to allow competition and long term survival. The big clubs have a reduced earning margin the small clubs get better one which invariably would naturally cap spending whilst also allowing the big boys room to flex their muscles if they wanted to get the competitive edge.

One thing I would bring in would be a fixed squad size that must be adhered to at all times. Not this run short benched fiasco. Minimum 15 skaters and 2 goalies. If you have imports out injured you get British kids in there. Get some affiliations and call ups and downs going. Your import level is your import level. You sign a guy you release another but you only have 10 or 8 registered to your club any one time.

 

[fried egg]

thats why I said happy medium Mooney.I've watched rec hockey and you really shouldn't bring that into the argument,we are talking professional sport here.What about the old system that the FA Cup used to operate under it was not so long ago (still might be) that the away team and the home team shared the gate money.Do you think that would help?

 

[Mooney#16]

Professional or not competitive is competitive. Why people watch the Devils is they are the highest standard on offer otherwise ENL would be packed out week on week. The number of supporters you will get to watch will correlate to the standard of hockey on display was my point. Measures need to be found that can maintain standard and enhance competitiveness and that is to afford the lower budget teams a financial leg up.

I don't think split gates is viable with the Arena team overheads and variable gates for different teams. I'd rather a monthly toting up exercise and split there after so it all evened itself out a little more. This exercise of course being handled by a centralised league board not taking the clubs word on blind faith ala oh only 5500 for that game, oops 6500 really but no one will mind if we cash in the other £10000

 

[Spearsy]

One thing I would bring in would be a fixed squad size that must be adhered to at all times. Not this run short benched fiasco. Minimum 15 skaters and 2 goalies. If you have imports out injured you get British kids in there. Get some affiliations and call ups and downs going. Your import level is your import level. You sign a guy you release another but you only have 10 or 8 registered to your club any one time.[/quote]

I like the sound of this bit, Definatly a poistive for the brit guys that want to break through

 

[devson]

ok people this is how it was for me a basingstok fan
3 years ago we droped down to the epl in that first season i found it very hard to get into it as the pace is a lot slower less skill and more cock ups, so i found myself coming to cardiff twice a month to watch some proper hockey and last season i think me and my mate came to most cardiff games but this season i have only come up a few times as your not the team you were last year so i have found myself watching a lot more epl
you still have your big teams who can have spaire imports and you have your teams who struggle to get by but i dont think the big epl teams will give the low elite teams a good game
i think a merge of both leagues would be great for thesport with a 6 import limit and only four onhe ice at once

 

[Wannabe2]

ok people this is how it was for me a basingstok fan
3 years ago we droped down to the epl in that first season i found it very hard to get into it as the pace is a lot slower less skill and more cock ups, so i found myself coming to cardiff twice a month to watch some proper hockey and last season i think me and my mate came to most cardiff games but this season i have only come up a few times as your not the team you were last year so i have found myself watching a lot more epl
you still have your big teams who can have spaire imports and you have your teams who struggle to get by but i dont think the big epl teams will give the low elite teams a good game
i think a merge of both leagues would be great for thesport with a 6 import limit and only four onhe ice at once

Big drop in quality then, big EPL teams wouldnt give the lower EIHL a good game, and we are the Cardiff Devils, thanks for your input mate. And thank you for supporting us.

 

[osh]

I don't think split gates is viable with the Arena team overheads and variable gates for different teams. I'd rather a monthly toting up exercise and split there after so it all evened itself out a little more. This exercise of course being handled by a centralised league board not taking the clubs word on blind faith ala oh only 5500 for that game, oops 6500 really but no one will mind if we cash in the other £10000

Thats all very well intended, however, you are forgetting it is still a business, If you are the owner of one of the big teams who bring in far more crowds than the others, you won't really want someone saying that you have to subsidise the other teams so as they are just as competetive as you. If it were the case, other teams may decide ''hey, we won't have to spend so much on advertising etc because we don't have to worry about how many of our fans want to watch us as we are being subsidised by the bigger clubs''

 

[Mooney#16]

So if we get our new rink and its say 5000 seats and we by some stretch start selling it out do we then go ha ha we got gifted a new rink so check out all our cash, good luck in the basement guys. If the Devils get gifted a new barn that secures there financial well being just as Nottingham did replacing there old barn do they not have a greater reponsibility to use that facility to not just better themselves but the entire league and UK hockey. If we are secure through luck not a master business stroke whats left should be reinvested to help benefit those clubs not so lucky to have an arena to play out of. You want a league to play in then you invest in making it happen.

Geograghically Nottingham, Sheffield, Coventry etc probably also accumulate a fair portion of gate in away travel from other teams fans something especially in Cardiff the Devils are not as open to with people less willing to travel this far. All these factors make uneven trading enviroments. The teams need to be held accountable that if the league is to be stabilised then they have to put their money where their mouth is. There is only a finite pot of money produceable within the league as a whole and this needs to shared for the greater good. Yes you don't just rob peter to pay paul and you do allow some advantage to the big boys but having teams with spare imports and teams with less than allowed is just pointless. That can be restricted and addressed.

What I'm talking here is a helping hand as there isn't that much money to go around anyway but it would cause a restriction on big club excess and an improvement to the smaller teams budgets hopefully reducing the financial catastrophes that have cursed the last decade of hockey.

 

[osh]

We won't get a 5000 seat rink and we wouldn't fill it either, but, to go with your view I would say this. If we are 'gifted' such a rink as you say, the first thing PR would want to do - and quite rightly - is recoup his losses over the past seasons, he certainly wouldn't want to have to give a large proportion of gate money away thats for sure. Wage caps can never be enforced under the present regime, therefore there are very few options left to sustain the EIHL.

I do agree with you that something has to be done and urgently! What we lack is a big time sponsor, if we had decent sponsorship we could then ensure that the lower supported teams receive a larger proportion of sponsors money to help them recruit better imports and brits. We lack decent television media coverage which in turn doesn't help attract decent sponsorship, thats the area I think the EIHL chiefs should be looking at. If we received only 5% of what SKY pay out for football rights, the state of our game would improve immediately. sadly, we are in a situation where we don't even get any assistance from the UK government as many other sports do.