Cardiff Devils vs Hull Stingrays - Sun 6pm - Chat/Updates

[ASHIPP]

From the moment that Michel checked Glowa early on, there was going to be trouble. You could see individuals niggling and digging throughout the game - tension all the time. Very quickly obvious that Knight was going to cause disruption, either as revenge for the Glowa incident or just to make his mark.
He certainly did that - to start on Tyler Michel was a cowardly thing to do. The match had been won, the final seconds were on the clock. We were sitting just above the bench in block 4. Michel is neither the height or weight class of Knight. To rain blows to the head and pull Tylor's shirt over his head so he can't see the punches is mean.
IMHO, Knight was the major instigator in most of the trouble on Sunday. Earlier, when the Vother had received a punch from Knight for flying over the head of a Stingray player on the floor to avoid him, (Voth had no choice but to do that - he was skating so fast), Brad simply strugged his shoulders at the ref and skated away, not wanting to get involved. I understand the Vother wanting to protect Michel. The officials were trying to stop the other fights....and Knight was still punching Michel on the floor. :evil:
As for behind the scenes - Knight was the aggressor and should never have crossed that line between the dressing rooms. Brad let himself down at that point. The Vother had a choice - he could have and should have walked away as they had both received their game bans. Obviously the arguement had become very personal by then. Sad way to end a very good game in which the Devils took control in the 1st and 3rd periods and worked as a team. Glimpses of what will be excellent skills this season.....providing they are fit and keep their tempers.

 

[Rock Chick]

Hopefully we wont loose Brad for two many games. The 2 match ban maybe enough, and I might be inclined to extend both players to three so that Brad does not face Knight or any of the Rays.

Unfortunately Hull have 3 games between now and when we next meet them, whereas we only have 2. Therefore if Knight is given only a 2 or 3 match ban, there may still be some retribution, even if our own Voth isn't back.

 

[TheStub]

Hopefully we wont loose Brad for two many games. The 2 match ban maybe enough, and I might be inclined to extend both players to three so that Brad does not face Knight or any of the Rays.

Unfortunately Hull have 3 games between now and when we next meet them, whereas we only have 2. Therefore if Knight is given only a 2 or 3 match ban, there may still be some retribution, even if our own Voth isn't back.

The league need to look at the schedule, and probably make sure they don't meet again so soon. Although the crowd may like it, it could be a bit soon. Knight certainly shouldn't be visiting the bay (more so without Voth to step in).

I guess all we can do now is wait for the leagues ruling. You would have hoped that it would be out either today or tomorrow - surely it can't take that long to review the tape? Although, I suppose it is a case of getting people together. Do we have more than one full time official at the moment?

 

[Rempel16]

Maybe this is part of my personal wish, but hopefully they will both play again in two weeks, with a ruling from the league that either will get a ban if they are chucked out. At the end of the day, fans are going to pay to watch those, and will get a raw deal if thats what they have turned up for.

Besides, these teams have to play 7 more times yet, it is better for Voth and Knight to go at the faceoff as a be-all and end-all, and then forget about it. Otherwise there is simply going to be bad blood boiling the longer they both leave it.

 

[ASHIPP]

Maybe this is part of my personal wish, but hopefully they will both play again in two weeks, with a ruling from the league that either will get a ban if they are chucked out. At the end of the day, fans are going to pay to watch those, and will get a raw deal if thats what they have turned up for.

Besides, these teams have to play 7 more times yet, it is better for Voth and Knight to go at the faceoff as a be-all and end-all, and then forget about it. Otherwise there is simply going to be bad blood boiling the longer they both leave it.

Remps - I agree. They have to play eachother sometime. Isn't it better to get that meeting over with early than the clubs tip-toeing for them to avoid eachother. They are either grown men who can come to some sort of agreement(!) that they won't take out other players or eachother so as to continously get match bans....or do as they did on Saturday night and simply ignore eachothers windups and just get pims on technicalities.

 

[Chris]

http://www.the-inferno.co.uk/news/cardiff-devils-vs-hull-stingrays-challenge-cup-group-b/

Match report up on The-Inferno's website

It wasn’t just the score line that got the tent rocking as fans enjoyed a physical contest that produced nearly 5 hours in penalty minutes; with more than 3 hours awarded 23 seconds from the final buzzer.

Chris.

 

[Legin]

So why did the penalty box official not open the door then if he has been doing it for years?

Ask him. Perhaps he has Alzheimers and forgot how the door works!!

I have known in some junior games that the players are at the door waiting to open it themselves on the official's say so. It's not unusual especially in the tiny penalty boxes we have in Cardiff

Kipper I know the years are catching up on me but I don't have Alzheimers. Brads penatly had expired and I opened the door not Brad, As I need to watch the clock to ensure I let players out at the correct time I was doing this and until I opened the door I was unaware what was happening on the Ice.

ok, i've no idea if there is an issue with early box release or not, but just in case this is being explored by the league (who actively view this forum) can we avoid further discussion on this. any issues PM steve. ta

 

[ASHIPP]

We know that Knight (for instigating most of the aggression plus crossing the line) and Huppe (for stick throwing) deserve fairly hefty penalties. Whilst there will be an official enquiry and as yet don't know the outcome, I fear that Brad will get a hefty ban....and Maxi possibly penalised for swinging his stick.
If bans are awarded, it means short-bench time again. :evil: Add to this Mark's injury and Stoney only just returning, the Devils are not helping themselves.

Like many people I am unclear on the finer points of ice hockey regulations. Would be grateful to our regular posters with encyclopaedic knowledge of the Rule Book to clarify a few points:

1. Is the brawl between the Vother and Knight classed as an 'off ice' incident because they had both been thrown out of the game? Therefore, is it 'outside' the framework of the game that still officially had less than 30secs to run?

2. When given the penalty of being 'thrown out of the game', does this take effect from the moment the player leaves the ice, or the moment he enters the locker room?

3. Are further penalties likely to be given to a player who has been thrown out but does not return to the locker room immediately....even if he is not involved in another incident?

4. Is 'swinging the stick' in itself a penalty if it can be shown that there was no intent to injure another player?

5. On the footage of the brawl behind the benches, some of the Devils players are seen reaching over the plexi behind the bench to punch Knight - what will happen there?

6. What about those players (Stingrays and Devils) who left the bench to go behind the plexi to help break up the brawl - will they be penalised for getting involved?

Answers on a postcard please! :lol:

 

[Huskie442]

Listening to Shannon tonight on Real Radio, he is clearly trying to get both clubs to deal with this in house, but I think everyone recognises that the fighting carrying on off the ice is detrimental to the game. He spent quite a while trying to re-enforce that this happens once in a blue moon and that Hockey is a family sport, but It will be interesting to see the leagues interpretation and also to see in which way this effects the crowd numbers next week, we may gain some, but I cant see those being people coming in as groups and families and my fear is that we may also lose families and other new fans that have started to come this year over incidents like this. If that happens it will really put the incident in perspective.

Me, Im a season ticket holder and have been around for 15 yrs, I know how rare it is and I will continue to advertise the sport in any way I can. Hopefully this will get dealt with quickly and appropraitely and wont drag on continuing to put the sport in a bad light....we shall see.

 

[ASHIPP]

Some folk might argue that this kind of incident will improve attendances at the Blue Tent for a while. Others believe it's not good for family entertainment. I'm just more concerned with the effect that possible lengthy bans are going to have on the Devils team morale, fitness and ability to win matches. This, on top of some injuries and erratic pre-season preparation, is not helping the Devils progression.
There is much respect and sympathy for the Vother around other fan forums. There is a lot of agreement that it sounds like he was enacting his enforcer duties correctly and protecting his team mates but that he will probably get a ban taking into account previous behaviour.
The views on Knight, however, are far more vitriolic (especially from Panthers fans) in that he is a malicious trouble-maker, trying to prove a point.

There were several instances during the game where Brad was goaded and didn't respond. A majority of his actions on ice were justified as a result of provocation. Was Knight's hits on Michel as a result of direct provocation by Michel, or Huppe's stick throwing caused by another individual? No. Where Brad let himself and the team down was reacting to Knight on his way to the locker room. I know, in the heat of the moment.....but he must have realised it would result in the possibility of a further ban.

I blame Smith for allowing the Vother and Knight to leave the ice at virtually the same time. He should have ensured that Knight was safely in the locker room first. His whole handling of the physical side of that game was chaotic. I'm afraid the teams themselves didn't do a very good job of self control.

 

[Koop11]

What a game to miss!

From what I've seen on limited footage I can see a resonably call for a few suspensions but I hope the league use some common sence this season. They cocked up royally last year and I hope for their own sake they don't make fools of themselves again.

 

[Jones72]

... I hope the league use some common sence this season. They cocked up royally last year and I hope for their own sake they don't make fools of themselves again.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[Wannabe2]

Well this was one hell of a game, and a ripper for the fans, but getting away from the incidents, what was great was seeing the talent that exists in this present squad. Myself i really do think that in a few weeks time, when the guys have had time to gel and bond we will see a team capable of bringing silverware back to Cardiff. A team that others wont relish playing against, and a team that Devils fans can be well proud of. Season 09-10 can well be the year of the Devil, we have players with speed, players with skill, players with toughness, and most importantly players who want to look after each other, team toughness in all aspects. First class imports, and first class Brits, its looking extremely good for this coming season, bring em on.
HAPPY HOCKEY DAYS.

 

[zoesdevil]

i think that the ref and linesmen are to blame coz as soon as knight started to hit michel and get him on the floor punching him in the head they should of all jumped to pull him off and then maybe we wouldnt of had all the other fights afterwards,i thought they are meant to stop fighting as soon as the player hits the floor especially if his jersey is over his head and he cant defend himself properly???but they just stood back and did nothing so voth had to do something,he's the captain and he always sticks up for his team mates!!!

 

[Block 2 Noise Boys]

Unfortunately, I was unable to attend this game and from the comments on here it clearly was a a belter of a game - both on and off the ice (Note to self - Make sure you get to the rematch)

I have only watched the snippets of the game from Youtube & the BBC - and read with great interest the comments on here - I can't help concluding that a significant proportion of the blame for the Travesty Charges being brought must lie firmly at the Referee's door.

In a match where clearly Knight and Voth have had a difference of opinion and have been thrown out of the game for expressing their differences. I don't think it would have taken a huge amount of common sense to send the players being ejected from the game, off the ice at different times. Deal with one team first and then deal with the other team.

I don't think this would have been the 1st Ice Hockey Match where two players had wanted to carry on their altercation after leaving the ice - the consequences are that the suspensions that should only be a game or two at most will now be a minimum of two games plus a Disciplinary Review - which given one parties previous record is likely to result in a disproportionate level of suspension. I believe that Knight will only get 2 or 3 games at most - Mr Voth on the other hand will IMO get a minimum of 6 games plus a further 6 games suspended.

It really is too much to expect Zebras to apply common sense - or indeed take any responsibility for how the game is refereed.

 

[Twinkle]

I can't help concluding that a significant proportion of the blame for the Travesty Charges being brought must lie firmly at the Referee's door.

In a match where clearly Knight and Voth have had a difference of opinion and have been thrown out of the game for expressing their differences. I don't think it would have taken a huge amount of common sense to send the players being ejected from the game, off the ice at different times. Deal with one team first and then deal with the other team.
I don't think this would have been the 1st Ice Hockey Match where two players had wanted to carry on their altercation after leaving the ice - the consequences are that the suspensions that should only be a game or two at most will now be a minimum of two games plus a Disciplinary Review - which given one parties previous record is likely to result in a disproportionate level of suspension. I believe that Knight will only get 2 or 3 games at most - Mr Voth on the other hand will IMO get a minimum of 6 games plus a further 6 games suspended.

It really is too much to expect Zebras to apply common sense - or indeed take any responsibility for how the game is refereed.

Sorry but i disagree.....Knight is new to this league and obviously wanted to make his ''mark''.....i totally accept Brad stepped in on the ice to help Tylor BUT Brad knows he is an easy target for the EIHL when it comes to bans and he is also Captain of the Devils,he knows that if he does anything stupid he will be heavily punished......but he still decided to take part in what was essentially a bar room brawl which will probably result in a lenghty ban. He should have just carried on into the dressing room,making Knight look incredibly stupid.

I have always defended Brad but this time he has to take responsibility for any ban he receives and come to realise that he is a Devil and a captain because of his skills on the ice....not sitting somewhere in the stands !!

 

[Wannabe2]

Some of these views are spot on, but we have to remember that Brad is Brad, what you see is what you get, if he was different he wouldnt be Brad, and maybe not the guy we want to return year after year. Yes he is more important to the team when he is on the ice, but when you take certain things out of a player, you can also be left with a void. Myself i wouldnt have him any other way, and 7 other Elite teams wouldnt either.

 

[Twinkle]

Some of these views are spot on, but we have to remember that Brad is Brad, what you see is what you get, if he was different he wouldnt be Brad, and maybe not the guy we want to return year after year. Yes he is more important to the team when he is on the ice, but when you take certain things out of a player, you can also be left with a void. Myself i wouldnt have him any other way, and 7 other Elite teams wouldnt either.

So even f he gets a 10 game ban...you still think....''Oh well,thats just Brad?''. A team is a group of people giving their utmost for their team mates and the supporters........sitting out leaving us short helps neither party.

I understand how fans feel about Brad...i still have a soft spot and feel sometimes he is unfairly punished...but we wouldnt all be checking the internet to yet again see how many games our ''captain'' will be suspended for if he had just thought a little and thought about the consequenses.

 

[samidevils]

Am I the only one who thinks that Smith wasn't to blame. Players fight, get ejected from the game and are sent off the ice together a lot..... This is the first time I have seen anything like this. (Cov bench clearence was slightly different).

 

[Chris]

I don't think smith was as bad as some people are making out. He may have made a mistake in sending both players off the ice at the same time, but I don't think I was alone in being surprised that the fight continued behind the benches.

For what it's worth, after seeing Hanson in Newcastle twice and then Carson/Coenen in Hull on Saturday, it was a welcome relief to see Smith down here.

Chris.