Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Updates

[Ocko]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

Weren't the Steelers pre season games against Aalborg in ice Sheffield though? For a usual fan base of around 4-5k I'd be amazed if it wasn't a sell out. They had 4K to their CHL game which I imagine they'd be a little disappointed with.

I'll give you that our PR needs to improve though. I get the impression that the focus has been on the sponsorship and business events, which I suppose they identified as a weakness. Now that has improved maybe it's time to raise the profile throughout the normal public rather than the business community.

 

[Electro]

Maybe some lessons need to be learnt from other clubs.

As for my 3 yr business plan, sorry l wouldn't be able to, in my opinion the Devils isn't a business l or anyone else would be able to make successful. It's a prerequisite of any business to have confidence in its concept, l do not posses that confidence.

I'm sure the team has learnt some lessons.






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[danhall76]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

Is that you DWD?

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[Devil_Abroad]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

My issue is I don't care for exibition games. I appreciate the management bring in these teams but most look like they should be a blow out one way or the other. No one goes when we play Caps because it won't be as competetive as Panthers or Giants. If a game doesn't matter I can't get excited.

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so why bother going at all? You obviously don't enjoy the hockey. Not having a go, just don't understand.


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[Devil_Abroad]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

Maybe next yr we could get an NHL team to play a KHL team, that would bring a crowd.


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how would that help our pre-season? I often struggle to understand your point of view - seems you don't like the owners of IAW, IAW itself, the Devils management, even hockey.


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[danhall76]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

My issue is I don't care for exibition games. I appreciate the management bring in these teams but most look like they should be a blow out one way or the other. No one goes when we play Caps because it won't be as competetive as Panthers or Giants. If a game doesn't matter I can't get excited.

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so why bother going at all? You obviously don't enjoy the hockey. Not having a go, just don't understand.


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I didn't go. Was I not clear?

I was merely giving my point of view on these games as a suggestion as to why the stands aren't full.

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[danhall76]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

My issue is I don't care for exibition games. I appreciate the management bring in these teams but most look like they should be a blow out one way or the other. No one goes when we play Caps because it won't be as competetive as Panthers or Giants. If a game doesn't matter I can't get excited.

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so why bother going at all? You obviously don't enjoy the hockey. Not having a go, just don't understand.


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Sorry for double post.

As I said I don't enjoy blow outs, so yes I don't enjoy the hockey.

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[Electro]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

If pre season is predominantly used to develop skills, team building, coaching etc etc why use the current format knowing attendances are predictably low. Why not for instance send the team to a training camp.

My take on the tone of the announcements of the pre season games gave me the opposite impression. Which is why I made my comments, in my opinion the pre season was intended to have fulfilled two objectives. Filling the IAW was an epic failure, that's obvious. The other objective we have yet to see.


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[voth26]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

Maybe some lessons need to be learnt from other clubs.

As for my 3 yr business plan, sorry l wouldn't be able to, in my opinion the Devils isn't a business l or anyone else would be able to make successful. It's a prerequisite of any business to have confidence in its concept, l do not posses that confidence.

I'm sure the team has learnt some lessons.

You say you don't possess the confidence in the Devils or its concept, yet you quite freely and openly criticise them at every opportunity yet you offer no constructive and positive solutions. My question is why not, also why can't the Devils be a business that is successful. The owners are very successful business men far more than you i'm sure, yet you seem to give the impression that you are a person who has all the answers but chooses not to say, personally I think your an egotistical person who in reality has very little to actually contribute positively and very little to say but likes the sound of your own written voice




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[Electro]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

There are a lot of assumptions in your post Voth26.

May l suggest you re visit my posts.

Critics very rarely post solutions, nor do they generally posses the skills required to do the job, never mind improve it. Although I'd love to see the results of a critics attempts too. It's generally accepted that doing the opposite of the criticism is the solution.

As I've previously stated, criticism is not necessarily negative.




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[backrow]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

Unfortunately, very few posts about the actual Devils / Trappers game!

 

[pjj365]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

There are a lot of assumptions in your post Voth26.

May l suggest you re visit my posts.

Critics very rarely post solutions, nor do they generally posses the skills required to do the job, never mind improve it. Although I'd love to see the results of a critics attempts too. It's generally accepted that doing the opposite of the criticism is the solution.

As I've previously stated, criticism is not necessarily negative.

I can't help but agree that critics rarely post solutions - that is a simple fact

BUT

In my business life a constant critic without a solution has rarely been successful and comes to be seen as disaffected.

Criticism is not seen as the opposite of a solution but the jumping off point to a solution. To achieve this does, however, require an element of a proven foundation to the criticism. The truly successful will crticise and suggest a solution as one package. It is equally true that the successful take criticism and build on it leaving the critic frustrated at their, deserved, lack of recognition. Why deserved - because constant criticism is seen as negative and responding to it (in a corporate environment) is a drain on resources better used to run the business and plan ahead. Thus the constant critic will eventually be ignored which means that the occasional gem will be missed.

Criticism is frequently encouraged by businesses but only if it is constructive.

As to not being able to plan because one does not accept a concept - that is the luxury of the non committed/unattached. In the corporate world concepts are tested in many ways and one of those is building a business plan. It is part of the end game of R&D. There are, inevitably, failures and some concepts do not become reality. Some, though, turn out to be winners.

At its most primitive a concept is a dream and I believe true Devils fans dare to dream.

Would I though accept the challenge to build a business plan - no. To do so requires all parties to buy into a common goal (which the forum suggests does not exist in the fan base) and a knowledge of the current business operations and plans which I, and I would suggest most of us on here, do not have.

The owners are successful business men with good hockey knowledge outside of the EIHL and I would not presume to second guess their 5 year plan when we are just entering year 3. The Devils may be a hobby but even hobbies have a price. The owners want success but cannot be a bottomless money pit.

We therefore need to have faith and support them in their endeavours which, as we live in the real world, will not always be successful.


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[Electro]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

Totally agree pjj365. We need to put some perspective into your assessment and remember this is a fan forum.

I have suggested solutions, which is why l suggested re reading. The constant negativity or criticism label is subjective, l believe the few subjects I've criticised are not a constant, that labelling has more to do with reactive anger by a small minority of posters that police the site and react with emotion. Those posters cause people to discuss issues outside of the forum on social media and in private purely because of the reactions of that minority.

Which is sad because debate becomes personnel on here and distracts from the discussion.




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[Finny]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

Totally agree pjj365. We need to put some perspective into your assessment and remember this is a fan forum.

I have suggested solutions, which is why l suggested re reading. The constant negativity or criticism label is subjective, l believe the few subjects I've criticised are not a constant, that labelling has more to do with reactive anger by a small minority of posters that police the site and react with emotion. Those posters cause people to discuss issues outside of the forum on social media and in private purely because of the reactions of that minority.

Which is sad because debate becomes personnel on here and distracts from the discussion

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What solutions have you suggested?
A KHL v NHL game? At least you're not even trying to back up this ridiculous suggestion again.

A training camp away? That has already been suggested by others. But I'd argue that this summer it was important we played more games than normal in IAW to get used to our new home.

As others have pointed out, you constantly criticise the club whilst offering no viable solution yourself. Which you've even started to admit yourself. Each post you make is a battle between your misplaced arrogance and bitterness towards a new arena you weren't part of building.

Take some advise from your previous username and just chill.

 

[Welshy74]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

So we are not talking about the game itself then???

 

[Vartel]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

I thought it was a great game to watch.

It was funny when Martin (i think) had a breakaway and tried to do the same trick past the defender as Batch did for his epic goal, but the defender was able to kick the puck away.

On interesting thing, as we held them to a 5-0 shut out, the score in Coventry last night was much closer, suggesting that we should be better than Coventry, but that isnt how things work in practice

 

[Devil_Abroad]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

Totally agree pjj365. We need to put some perspective into your assessment and remember this is a fan forum.

I have suggested solutions, which is why l suggested re reading. The constant negativity or criticism label is subjective, l believe the few subjects I've criticised are not a constant, that labelling has more to do with reactive anger by a small minority of posters that police the site and react with emotion. Those posters cause people to discuss issues outside of the forum on social media and in private purely because of the reactions of that minority.

Which is sad because debate becomes personnel on here and distracts from the discussion.




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I think people see your name and associate negative thoughts to it as you almost always put the organisation down.

I suggest you contact all the businesses and let them know how poorly they are run and suggest your solutions.

I need to follow the guidance here I guess and skip all your comments going forward.


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[Finny]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

I thought it was a great game to watch.

It was funny when Martin (i think) had a breakaway and tried to do the same trick past the defender as Batch did for his epic goal, but the defender was able to kick the puck away.

On interesting thing, as we held them to a 5-0 shut out, the score in Coventry last night was much closer, suggesting that we should be better than Coventry, but that isnt how things work in practice

Initially, I was a bit disappointed that we only beat them 5-0. Certainly surprised that we were only 1-0 up at the first period.

Yes we weren't playing anywhere near top gear and it took a while for the new lines to connect, but I still expected us to be far too strong for Tilburg. Having said that, Tilburg were a lot better than I was expecting. Rolling 4 lines also meant that they didn't tire as I thought they might.

The fact that they only lost 3-2 to Coventry the following night suggests I might well have underestimated Tilburg. I think we'll get a far better indicator as to where we are in the next two games against Coventry.

Will also be interesting to see what lines we go with. As others have said the Asselin-Myers-Haddad line certainly stood out on Saturday.

 

[voth26]

Re: Devils v Trappers - 27/08 19:00 - Exhibition - Chat/Upda

Totally agree pjj365. We need to put some perspective into your assessment and remember this is a fan forum.

I have suggested solutions, which is why l suggested re reading. The constant negativity or criticism label is subjective, l believe the few subjects I've criticised are not a constant, that labelling has more to do with reactive anger by a small minority of posters that police the site and react with emotion. Those posters cause people to discuss issues outside of the forum on social media and in private purely because of the reactions of that minority.

Which is sad because debate becomes personnel on here and distracts from the discussion.

Electro, I never post in the heat of emotion and certainly not with reactive anger of any sort. My points are regarding your posts and not directed at you personally, as you are aware there are two types of criticism negative and positive both are good in EQUAL measures, but you are very rarely positive. You also very rarely offer positive solutions and if I'm honest very rarely offer any solution so even you must see how you are perceived on here, just by looking at how people respond to your posts!!. Also I am not in a small minority of people who think this as you seem to think!!



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[Electro]

I posted a pic of a suggested shirt in the shirt thread. I've yet to see the shirt l criticised in person, when l do I'll post an update.

I posted a link to a goal light supplier, in that thread. Why you build an ice hockey arena with inadequate lights is a bit, well inept.

I mentioned the use of rapid cooking in the thread criticising the cafe service. Those devices increase not only speed of service, but also variety, choice and professional results without increasing staffing costs. If your going to start any business, you need to have at least some basic understanding of the needs. Should we mention curling.

I've mentioned the need to improve WiFi and the use of apps to improve service. Do l need to post a link to companies who specialise in solutions, it's a simple google search.

I've suggested Lord coach from the bench.

I've pointed out the need to improve marketing and PR.

I've informed the forum the location of the exchange for Internet access when the IAW opened without it.

I've suggested the opening of the IAW be marketed better.

I've pointed out the requirements of curling, cost etc. At least look into the requirements, viability etc at the planning stage, again basics.

I've pointed out the flaws in the rink management, that solution is obvious, change it.

I've pointed out Greenbanks flaws regarding various issues, not having the funds or appetite to run a successful rink. Solution change it, l supported Devils purchase the rink. Since that hasn't moved forward, my fear is not alleviated.

I voiced surprise and concern at the response of the Police and security staff at the boxing incident, my reasoning was the location, attendees and potential threats at public venues. Project Griffin covers these situations, the IAW and the security staff used should be well aware of the National Counter Terrorism Security Office advice to public places, bars, restaurants, sporting venues etc etc. I'm hoping the owners of IAW are fully aware, although from what I've understood, possibly not. Solution, get advice, follow it.

In fact the criticism I've made have all been very basic and frankly it's ludicrous that many of the issues have even occurred.

Mark, I'd struggle to build a sand castle, never mind an ice rink. Your barking up more wrong trees than a pack of blind lurchers.




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