Ice Arena Wales

[pjj365]

The money Greenbank has made out of contracts awarded around Cardiff their more than financially capable of injecting funds into the IAW.


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That's potentially irrelevant. It is rare for businesses to cross subsidise between budgets/projects and associated targets

Each will have their target for profit contribution and those are usually sacrosanct. If this were not the case then one poor project/business arm would damage the whole. An extreme example is Tata in Port Talbot - they will not let that cost centre damage their whole global business

 

[drainage]

I guess that depends on who the arena operator is. Greenbank, or are the Devils still trying to buy IAW?

Steve King was asked about this on bus said Greenbank and lawyers were at Sat game which wasn't a co incidence but they want to know its a viable business I believe he said nothing will happen this season.

 

[Electro]

I'm well aware of those points, that is why l made the comment that know body gives a shit. It is just as common to invest across if there is confidence of a return or seek investors. It goes back to points raised pre build, is the IAW capable of profit, given its size, location and facilities. In my opinion, no. It needs a lot of expensive changes, that should have been address at the design stage.


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[pjj365]

One thing is certainly true - no one knows. It is important to stress this

We are speculating based on our various life/business experiences. It is dangerous to suggest otherwise as rumour alone can damage an enterprise

As to cross subsidy - it does happen but rarely to simply support an ailing or potentially a non viable business/non-core project. Even so in my experience the hoops to go through to achieve this at large corporate level (where my experience lies) are very stringent.

As the owners seem to be stepping up their due diligence things may become clearer in time to come

 

[Electro]

Let's leave the chest puffing, my experience is great than yours, my daddy has a bigger asset than yours etc etc.

If Greenbank are not prepared to subsidise the IAW, no investors want in and the Devils ownership are unprepared to "sub" the complex, then the only conclusion l can come to is one of a short term, take what you can from it and dump it plan. BHS springs to mind.




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[pjj365]

Let's leave the chest puffing, my experience is great than yours, my daddy has a bigger asset than yours etc etc.

If Greenbank are not prepared to subsidise the IAW, no investors want in and the Devils ownership are unprepared to "sub" the complex, then the only conclusion l can come to is one of a short term, take what you can from it and dump it plan. BHS springs to mind.




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Absolutely not chest puffing but establishing basis of comments as you do frequently with comments on advising developers on plans over the years

 

[Electro]

That's fine, but your assumption is that "no one knows" and "we are speculating".

Maybe, l don't know if information on this or other threads is anything more than what you suggest, nobody from within the organisation has or is going to discuss the inner workings of the business openly and honestly on a fan forum, that is pretty obvious. I cannot assume that information is not coming from outside of the organisation, or that it could be incorrect or impossible any more than you can assume it's wrong, as you stated, your assumption is that nobody knows.

Without an ice rink the Devils are dead, are the owners really willing to risk financing the IAW to continue the future of the Devils. Was Ragan paid a substantial amount for the Devils. Are Greenbank willing to finance it, the answer to that is very clear. Nobody is going to take a punt at the moment, it's vital the business proves its validity.

I suggest there is more riding on winning as much as possible this year than other clubs within the league. The Maybe next year option is not an option.


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[Finny]

Is it me or is every one of Electro's posts now along the lines of:
"Either this will happen, or it won't happen"

You're typing a lot but not actually making any difinitive points.

 

[Devil_Abroad]

Usually, when a business operates a 'cash only' service because of 'technical' problems it's a tax fiddle.
i.e.; No receipts no record of income = no taxes paid.

I'm not saying this is going on at IAW but it does happen, particularly before a business changes ownership!
Food for thought.

What? They're not using tills?



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[Devil_Abroad]

Is it me or is every one of Electro's posts now along the lines of:
"Either this will happen, or it won't happen"

You're typing a lot but not actually making any difinitive points.

I think he may be a lawyer?


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[Coatsy79]

Having just returned from my first game at the IAW (I know recent baby has kept me away from the Devils for over a year) I can say I love the building, very cool, the actual arena area is awesome, feel like they weren't very ambitious with the capacity though

The cafe seemed a bit naff and the shop is minuscule, but overall the second ice pad/skating rink is great (used that today too) and the overall feel of the place is great could've done with a couple thousand more seats maybe but I'm just happy to see solid ice under the players feet, but step up from the BBT

 

[jimmy snels]

Yeah i just took my cousin to his first game at IAW and he said exactly the same thing. It is in retrospect a bit on the small size, im sure if it was known the upturn in our fortunes it would have been more like 5k. I still wonder if there is any room for additional capacity especially the block 19 side that has large areas mainly unused and two large areas in the adjoining corners

 

[Wannabe2]

Unfortunately there were restrictions on land, and obviously money, also we didn't have the amazing owners we have now, under the past regime we probably would have struggled to half fill the new gaff. There are still issues to be addressed, but it's a lovely venue and at this moment in time it's rocking. I looked at plans with John Lawless many years ago in the WNIR about a new home for the Devils and it was 5,000 then, we have what we have and presently I love it.

 

[mazza03]

My biggest bugbear is the lack of littler bins, I sit in block 8 and there was one at the bottom of block 10/11 but that has disappeared, it sickens me seeing the rubbish on the floor but this is what happens when there aren't any bins. I was taught when very young to take my litter home which I do, but I was brought up in a different age when you respected every thing and every one or God help you, sad this isn't done now.

 

[Ocko]

IAW needs an extra 1k or so for me. That many would be near impossible to expand to but I wouldn't rule out a bit of an increase, especially if the Devils ownership ever assume control; more tickets equals more profit afterall - profit that would've made little difference to Greenbank.

The gantry where icetime tv are should be hospitality boxes. Hospitality in IAW is better than in the BBT of course, but it's still pretty bad. You can't watch the game from your box. There should be a row of hospitality boxes up there across that level, there is definitely plenty of room for it, just needs two rows of balcony like seats in front (like Sheffield and Nottingham).

And of course the much talked about standing at the back.

These two things would probably add on a few hundred taking us up to 3,500ish. The only area with enough roof space to expand is behind the goals at both ends. But it is certainly something that needs looking at, we are not even half way into year 1 in the rink and are already near capacity every game (even for Edinburgh!).

 

[Finny]

The gantry where icetime tv are should be hospitality boxes. Hospitality in IAW is better than in the BBT of course, but it's still pretty bad. You can't watch the game from your box. There should be a row of hospitality boxes up there across that level, there is definitely plenty of room for it, just needs two rows of balcony like seats in front (like Sheffield and Nottingham).

There's not actually that much depth to the gantry. There certainly wouldn't be the space for hospitality boxes and access to them unless you had people walking through boxes to get to the next. And even then each box would be less than two metres deep. It's also above some of the lighting, cables, pipes etc so although the view from where IcetimeTV are based is perfect, if you start moving to the sides your view can be obstructed.

If in the future money was no object I'd like to see them build upwards and outwards on players bench side and add a second tier. That might be 'easier' to do and not require raising the whole roof.

 

[Wannabe2]

Correct there isn't much room where icetime are, and they need that area anyway. Can't see anymore money being spent by Greembank, as already been said it's of little benefit to them, and it must be like a White Elephant to them. The most important thing at this moment in time is to keep filling it, regular 3k crowds will keep us in good stead.

 

[Milky]

Ok, so not a rant but as we are back on this topic......

I'm loving being in the new arena, the match night experience and the Devils journey that I get to share with my wife, daughter and son every week........ but what a MASSIVE missed opportunity the rink is.

I totally understand the huge issues and politics involved in getting to where we are now but so many stupid decisions have been made in that building. I've mentioned them all before but I see others are noticing them now as well. (well trodden ground unfortunately)

As regards the gantry, you could do a sky lounge type of arrangement similar to something at the Blues but as mentioned, there is very little depth. There is huge ducting that runs along the back wall that would intrude massively. One option would be to build a mezzanine above the walkway in front of the current boxes that could add room.

I would convert the current boxes into a bar personally. I'd also convert the two corners on the third level into corporate and sponsors bars.

I don't think there is enough room for standing from a fire and safety point of view

From an expansion point of view I don't think we have an issue until the end of this season. If we sell out every week then at the end of the year its something to address. Empty seats look crap and would affect the atmosphere. And until (and even if) the guys buy the rink this is all moot anyway. The current management and ownership of the rink don't seem particularly proactive in moving things forward (e.g. still a cash only bar even though phone lines are now in the building, no taps at all working in one of the women toilets).

Speaking of management, has anyone heard why Chris Hartrey left overnight and hasn't been back since? Seems very strange.

 

[Coatsy79]

That's kind of how I feel, an opportunity missed, empty seats are rubbish but if the rink were 4.5/5k it give you somewhere to go not to mention another 2000 more people spending money

I myself spend nearly £100 as I had to buy a New Jersey for the boy and something to eat

Imagine taking £100 or so off of nearly another 2000 people even half that so much extra revenue for the team

Also how many people don't bother with the cafe because it's cash only, no one takes cash anywhere nowadays

 

[Wannabe2]

We didn't miss a opportunity believe me,, as the opportunity for a bigger venue was never on the cards, it took 10 yrs to get what we got, and believe me that wasn't easy.